Clark Lift

[Thom Van Vleck]

So….why would we want to vote in a lift names for a guy that has started (to my understanding) a rival organization that he has stated in his own words is a result of his disappointment of where the USAWA has ended up. Why doesn’t he just name a lift after himself in that organization?

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[Al Myers]

I’m glad to see posting again back on the USAWA Discussion Forum!!! I have to apologize I haven’t been very good lately at starting topics as I’ve been super busy with work and it’s all I can do to get “maintenance” stuff done for the website.

That’s a great question from Thom, the All Round nice guy regarding the Clark Lift.

The Clark lift was presented to the Executive Board by Bill Clark prior to the event that happened. It was reviewed and voted on by the EB at the time and passed with unanimous vote. All new lift proposals have a set protocol that must be followed and this is the first step to getting a new lift approved. Now the future of the Clark Lift lies with the membership vote at the National Meeting.

The USAWA is a democratic organization and we follow rules and bylaws that have been voted on and approved by the membership. I am only an administrator in the organization and must follow the duties set forth in the bylaws for my position as Secretary. All other officers, board members, and directors do the same. There is no dictator in the USAWA that can make rules at will or disallow situations allowed under our rules and regulations (which is a good thing!) So regardless of my personal feelings on this matter at the present time, I must present it on the agenda or otherwise I would be in violation of my job responsiblities, and not fulfulling my duties by those who elected me.

The final say on the Clark Lift will be done by democratic vote at the National Meeting.

I welcome others to comment on this!!!!

[Lance Foster]

What is the Clark lift?

The Gloved One

[RJ]

-Thanks Lance. I would also like to know what is the Clark lift?

-What is the pinch grip deadlift? I thought that this was the original name for the Reeves lift.

-As much as I am against the front hang, I must ask about the pinch-lift strict. I thought USAWA did not duplicate lifts that other organizations already offer. Grip Sport offers this lift.

-Lastly I am curious on how the names of lifts are selected. For example, the original, very old books call “heels together (press)” as the “military (press)” because you stand in the strict “position of attention”.

thank you

• This reply was modified 6 years, 10 months ago by RJ.

[RJ]

Thanks

[dwagman]

Yeah, like Lance said…what are the proposed rules of this lift?

And let’s just assume that if it gets passed it’s the Anthony Clark lift (remember him?…he and I competed together at the first EVER World Bench Press Championships) and not the Bill Clark lift…hehehe

—
Dan

For Body Intellect Brochure click here: https://www.icloud.com/keynote/0fcsokZWooW_1B1uZmL1AI5fA#BI-DW

Those who are enamored of practice without science
are like a pilot who goes onto a ship without rudder or
compass and never has any certainty to where he is going.
Leonardo Da Vinci; 1452-1519

[KCSTRONGMAN]

Whoa! What happened? What is this organization? This is the first I am hearing about this.

I'm the lyrical Jesse James

[Al Myers]

Wow, Thanks everyone for the comments and questions – NOW I gotta find some time to explain all this!!!

Again, I do apologize as this new lift stuff should have been announced much better on the website by now. That’s my fault as I haven’t found the time to get it done.

I’ll post again later addressing things here. Al

[Al Myers]

Starting with Lance’s question “What is the Clark Lift?”

This lift was proposed to the USAWA EB last fall by Bill Clark. It was approved at the time unanimously by the EB. The rule for the proposed lift is as follows:

Clark Lift
The bar will placed at a height of one third the lifters height, measured to the bottom of the bar. The lift begins at the lifters discretion. The lifter will take the bar in the inside of the elbows between the upper arms and lower arms as in the Zercher Lift. The bar is lifted to a position where the lifter is standing fully upright with legs straight and shoulders erect. The feet must not move position during the lift, but the heels and toes may rise. It is an infraction if the bar is supported by the lifters belt. Once upright and motionless, an official will give the down command. The bar must be returned to the supports under control.

[KCSTRONGMAN]

Sounds like a reasonable proposal. Still looking forward to “the rest of the story”

I'm the lyrical Jesse James

[RJ]

I agree with ET that it sounds reasonable. Glad that it is a lift that reflects him.

(I only say this because I wonder if Phumchaona Lift reflects Noi’s passion since she was an Olympic Weightlifter.)

• This reply was modified 6 years, 10 months ago by RJ.

[dwagman]

Like ET said…reasonable.

And frankly, regardless of Bill acting like a jerk at times, that shouldn’t impact the vote on a lift. The main considerations to me ought to be first and foremost whether a proposed lift actually represents an old-time all-round lift or not, and second whether the biomechanics of the lift increase the lifter’s injury risk beyond what’s reasonable. Besides, like I said earlier, for those who dislike Bill Clark that much, they can simply think of it as the Anthony Clark lift instead.

—
Dan

For Body Intellect Brochure click here: https://www.icloud.com/keynote/0fcsokZWooW_1B1uZmL1AI5fA#BI-DW

Those who are enamored of practice without science
are like a pilot who goes onto a ship without rudder or
compass and never has any certainty to where he is going.
Leonardo Da Vinci; 1452-1519

[Al Myers]

Good point Dan, now we will see if the USAWA membership agrees when the lift is voted on.

Now for RJ’s questions:

First the pinch grip deadlift –
I am proposing a strict pinch grip to take the pinch grip back to the way it was done originally in the USAWA. Meaning done with 2 smooth plates, even load, and no spacing of the plates to create a fronthang advantage. The deficiency of our current rules were very exposed at the Grip Champs this year. Anyone who was there can attest to this. Not that anything was done incorrectly as applied by the rules, all lifts done where well within the written rule. So I’m not saying anything was done wrong here, as our pinch grip is not now what the intended purpose of the pinch grip was years ago. I am proposing the Pinch Grip we now have become the Pinch Grip Deadlift while we add back the strict pinch grip (Dan, I’m sure you remember doing it strict back at Fultons meets when Matt Graham did 200 pounds with NO fronthang).

The Reeves lift was never known as the pinch grip deadlift that I know of. Its not really a pinch grip as the fingers curve over the lips of a wide flanged plate. The Reeves lift is also known as the Rim Lift amongst IAWA(UK) lifters.

The USAWA has rules preventing the inclusion of the powerlifts and the Olympic lifts only. This was one of the original concepts of the All Rounds (and considered by some as a founding principle). Grip sport lifts, strongman type lifts, etc are not included in this stipulation.

The current lift names were developed by the Rulebook committee in 2009 during the rewrite of the rulebook. The intent was to give a name that clearly describes the lift (unless a lift was named after someone). Up till that time numerous names were used to describe the same lift which created alot of confusion. Interesting that you mention the Military Press as at one time there were FOUR listings in the record list for the clean and press – Clean and press, Military press, Standing Strict Press, and the 2Hands Press. All the same lift. The committee favored the Clean and Press as the name as a backbend is allowed and thus the Military Press (which means standing straight) really didn’t fit within our rules.

I hope this explains your questions!!! Thanks.

[Al Myers]

More on the Clean and Press.

During the committee’s discussion on this Bill Clark was very much against having the Clean and Press as an official lift. His reasoning on this was because at one time the Clean and Press was one of the competitive Olympic Lifts and thus in violation of the founding principle of having an Olympic Lift or Powerlift as an official All Round Lift. However, the majority on the committe felt that since it had been dropped as an Olympic Lift it was now “fair game” for us to include it as an All Round Lift.

[Al Myers]

And Dan, I remember following Anthony Clark when I was younger, back in the days before the internet and the only news you could receive on strength sports was in newsletters and magazines. I will never forget when he was on the cover of Powerlifting USA lifting the back end of a car -very much impressed me at the time.

That’s super cool you got to meet and compete against him.

[Al Myers]

Still more rambling on my part here –

RJ, a few years back Dennis Mitchell ran into Noi and mentioned the Phumchaona lift to her. She had never heard of it.

So it’s my best guess how this came about (actually I pretty much can guess how it came about)

[dwagman]

Al, I consider it fantastic news that there just might be a real pinch grip as part of USAWA in the future. This front-hang stuff is just nonsense, regardless of it being “legal.”

As to Anthony Clark, please allow me to correct you. I did not compete against him. Although we were the same height, he weighed about 200 pounds more than me. We both won our respective weight classes in the first bench press worlds, though, and we had several other encounters, too. I remember him as a very nice guy…and–sadly–as a testament to the dangers of obesity.

And that picture of him lifting the back end of a car…he gave me a copy and signed it for me along with an inscription. I’ve got it blown up poster size and hanging in my Dungeon…right next to a poster of Larry Scott and Freddy Ortiz showing off their biceps…YEAH!!!…now I’m all motivated and ready to CRAAAAAANK!!!!

• This reply was modified 6 years, 10 months ago by dwagman.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 10 months ago by dwagman.

—
Dan

For Body Intellect Brochure click here: https://www.icloud.com/keynote/0fcsokZWooW_1B1uZmL1AI5fA#BI-DW

Those who are enamored of practice without science
are like a pilot who goes onto a ship without rudder or
compass and never has any certainty to where he is going.
Leonardo Da Vinci; 1452-1519

[RJ]

Al, thank you for educating me. Now I know.

[Thom Van Vleck]

I never lifted against Anthony….but I did lift “with” him one time. I was doing strongman evangelism with Omega Force and got to perform with Anthony. I wish I’d gotten a photo with him.

As for your assertion about the lift being the lift and not who it’s named after let me just make this analogy. Some people may not like General MacArthur but we still named numerous schools, roads, and bridges after him….even a dance step! But how many things were names after Benedict Arnold.

I don’t hate Clark. Hell, I wrote an article on him regarding his contributions to the strength world. Even though he threatened me with a lawsuit if I didn’t write the truth in my article (not sure how you define that….his definition or mine) I still did it because I thought he should get credit for starting masters lifting and women’s lifting competitions as well as his All round contributions. I used to like him before he started to make a habit of insulting my friends. Maybe that’s just me but I don’t stand by when my friends are insults. Must be a Marine Corps character flaw.

I think Bill doesn’t like how the organization is run so much that like the South in the Civil War he has went and started his own country where he can make his own rules. So this isn’t a knock on Bill’s legacy but it is a knock on how he has chosen to react to recent events by sneaking around, starting a new organization, and slamming the folks who currently run it. He’s not tried to come in and make changes in a democratic way but run off to be a dictator of his own country. And that’s my interpretation to recent events so don’t go just by what I said. I’m an angry old man as of late with not much to lose since losing my wife. I find the truth falls off my tongue without much regard to it’s future impact. That means I have no fucks left to give.

I’ll just say this: Like Al says, this is a democratic organization. The majority rules. If it’s voted in and I went to a meet that this was being contested I think I would like it better than the regular Zercher! Hell, the way the rules are written one might say whoever wrote the rules stole my idea from the Anderson Lift. (but watch out because there was a certain element out there that considered that as an insult against Anderson by going with a partial squat). Just like in any democracy I get to make my speech and then we all vote….or at least those that show up for the National meeting!

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[RJ]

Dear All-Round nice guy.

Thanks for explaining. Now I know the story. I am so glad I do not have to deal with that. I have enough personalities to put up with at work and I get paid to do that. Ugh … poor Al.

[0722143772]

CAN’T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG??

[Ben Edwards]

Al, I completely understand your feelings regarding the pinch event with front hang. I used front hang to stay competitive with the group, but it is not something I was familiar with in any other grip contest I’ve been to over the years.

I was at two of the Super Grips and got to witness Matt Graham’s phenomenal pinch strength. I also saw him snatch the blob with ease. It was ridiculous and words can’t really do it justice.

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." -Mike Tyson

[Ben Edwards]

I will admit that the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the title “Clark Lift” was a lift that was paused (for the judge’s “benefit”) for at least 5 seconds longer than any other certified judge on the planet would require it to be held (haha). My first experience with the “long pause” was at a Clark’s Record Day in 2009. Vertical bar pulls with long pauses are NOT COOL, lol. I pulled 315lbs lefty (no hook) but thought I was going to pass out by the time the down signal was called. Al and Thom were there that day too and hit some great lifts.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 10 months ago by Ben Edwards.

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." -Mike Tyson

[Al Myers]

Ben, I was there and watched that VB lift of yours at Clarks. I think I took 3 or 4 pictures of you at lookout you had to hold it so long!!!

[Al Myers]

Another thing here –
If the strict pinch grip gets passed at Nationals I will make a motion to include past meet strict pinch grips in the record list for it. Obviously there has to be proof that it was done strict. This way those old meets at Fultons where the strict pinch grip was done will be included in the record list. At one of my early Grip Championships we also did the Pinch Grip Strict.

The proof of Matt Grahams 200# Strict Pinch Grip is the signature picture of the Pinch Grip in our current rule book.

[Thom Van Vleck]

I would like to propose that the “Clark Lift” name be changed to the “Boone Lift” in honor of the the Boone County Sheriff’s Department.

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[Thom Van Vleck]

I would like to propose that the “Clark Lift” name be changed to the “Boone Lift” in honor of the the Boone County Sheriff’s Department. Or as Dan Wagman reasoned If you don’t like Boone County then you can think of it as being named after Daniel Boone.

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[Author]

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