USAWA

I find the biggest problem is that these government people don’t have a clue about half the stuff they are even putting bills agains’t and for that neither does the general public. I can remember years ago I worked part time at a vitamin store and I had a women outraged that I sold her 16 year old son creatine, and that it was causing him to have mood swings, and be aggressive, basically she was saying I sold him a steroid. I ended up having her return the item creatine monohydrate and politely told her that her son was probably just a normal ornery kid. Granted now you have places that will sell prohormones to anybody regardless of age. Hell I got kicked out of supplement store one time when I told the salesmen he was an idiot for even suggesting a teenager should take such a thing. There needs to be some regualation but when they put creatine in the same catergory as a steroid it becomes ridiculous.

Jesse

[b]Quote from tgoetsch on May 24, 2012, 13:25[/b]
A supplement company I follow on Facebook recently posted this article (for obvious reasons):

http://www.anh-usa.org/disastrous-durbin-anti-supplement-amendment-just-offered-help-stop-it/.

Polarizing and biased language aside, what are your thoughts on the regulation of supplement manufacturers? Should “big-government” step away and focus its resources elsewhere, allowing consumers to choose for themselves what to put in their bodies? Or is this a step in the right direction of more regulation of supplement manufacturers, keeping them more accountable for and honest about what they produce? This is a topic that really interests me to discuss with people!

I know about this because I am on the e-mail list of ANH-USA and I have e-mailed my two Georgia senators, using the form letter that ANH-USA provided. I have also e-mailed Senators Orrin Hatch of Utah and Tom Harkin of Iowa at their websites, as they are staunch supporters of supplements and Hatch’s support has been there for decades.

It is certainly true that some junk supplements for strength athletes have been on the market in the past few decades (e.g., Yohimbe bark), but this is a very small percentage of all nutritional supplements, which, in general, are quite beneficial.

There has long been a movement to suppress supplement manufacturers, if not put them out of business. The FDA has been trying to do this since the 1960s and Bob Hoffman had a Washington lobbyist, Trudy Engel, on his payroll to protect his interests during the 1970s.

I take a bunch of supplements of various types and have taken supplements since the early 1960s. I, quite frankly, become irate when I read in the media that “Vitamin E is potentially harmful” and no one should take it, etc., when I know that such statements are based on the results of flawed studies, as I follow this field rather closely. For example, the oft-quoted SELECT study used synthetic Vitamin E in the form of alpha tocopherol (only), whereas anyone who has any knowledge of Vitamin E knows that it is potentially dangerous to take such a form of Vitamin E because alpha tocopherol can deplete important gamma tocopherol from the body. Therefore, any study involving Vitamin E should use natural Vitamin E in the form of mixed tocopherols.

There is a doctor who has a column in the Atlanta paper and several months ago in his column he advised someone to not take Vitamin E. I wrote him a two-page letter to explain to him why he was giving poor advice, and when he did not respond to me, I e-mailed the editors of the paper to register a complaint against him. (And the “public editor” acknowledged my complaint.)

Sometimes I contact people who have been quoted with negative comments about supplements and they will inform me that they were misquoted. Others simply ignore me.

I don’t think it is any secret that drug companies want to take over the vitamin market and charge prices like the prices for drugs. And of course people who are in positions of influence can be bought. Not very many years ago there was a prominent biostatistician, Nathan Mantel, who was paid by the tobacco industry to say that secondhand smoke was not harmful. Well, ‘ole Nathan figured that he had a good thing going so he upped his asking price considerably for future statements, but the tobacco industry balked at paying what he wanted. You can read about some of these shenanigans here http://junkscience.org/news3/pioneer.html As this article stated “They’re not scientists; they’re prostitutes”.

I don’t know what Senator Durbin’s intentions are but his state hasn’t exactly been a sterling example of honesty in government, as four of its governors since 1961 have been sentenced to prison.

Fortunately, Senator Durbin’s anti-supplement amendment was soundly defeated yesterday by a vote of 77-20. http://www.anh-usa.org/durbin-amendment-defeated/

I’m sure the people on the other side of the fence won’t give up, however, although they are up against a powerful force in the sheer number of U.S. citizens who use supplements, and the almost 90,000 ANH-USA readers who bombarded members of Congress with e-mails in less than 24 hours. Even though this battle was won, the war undoubtedly is not over, so I encourage all of you to become familiar with these issues because our health and freedom of choice are likely to continue to be at stake.

Tom

[b]Quote from tgoetsch on May 24, 2012, 23:27[/b]
Thanks for the input, Tom and Jesse!

You are quite welcome, Troy, and note from my amended post the sound defeat of Durbin’s amendment.

Tom

Thanks Troy and Tom for this discussion. I wasn’t really aware that this legislation was being proposed until I read it here.

I have never been a big supplement user (just daily multi vitamin/mineral pills), but I do know at times they have much health benefits. I do know this from my occupation, if the big drug companys take control of OTC supplements, prices WILL be much higher and less marginal profit items will be discontinued and unavailable.

However, I do believe that some basic regulations should be in place to protect the public on this. Some of the stuff I have read in the past on the “hidden ingredients” in some products scare me … which is the main reason I don’t take supplements in fear that something I innocently took would “flag” a drug test (ie, like prohormones). Al

If someone takes prohormones and expects to pass a drug test for lifting they deserve to fail. Now someone who is older could possible take them and not fail a test, but I don’t know the research to say this is true or not. If I remember correct I think it was cell tech that was known for having tainted supps back in the day.

Jesse

Let’s start with legislation regulating that supplements have to actually have the ingredients that are stated on the label – and then let people use what they choose – not necessarily grass clipping or whatever some of these people throw in there at times. There are many reputable companies but tests often show little or none of what is advertised – buyer beware.

I agree with Al that there should be some sort of regulation. Anyone who has seen “Bigger, Stronger, Faster” would probably agree with that. If you haven’t, the guy who made the movie wants to make a point about supplements and how they are produced so he buy some random ingredients, hires some illegals, and produces something that he labels as like a wonder pill in his kitchen and then sells it to a supplement store.

If the government stepped in too much supplements would become too expensive to buy. For me, that would just mean that I would have to eat more real food and skip the protein that I take so it wouldn’t be a huge deal. There should be some sort of testing in place and regulation as to what has to be revealed on the labels. If a supplement company doesn’t want you to know what is in their product they just list it as a proprietary compound.

This is also a case of you get what you pay for. If you want to buy some cheap protein from Wal Mart then you should expect it to not have been manufactured in a controlled environment and for the sourcing of materials to be mostly overseas. If you want a high quality protein and want all the raw materials to come from the US so they are controlled the whole way through the process then you should expect to pay more.

The biggest problem with the supplement industry is that the majority of people do not understand that to get real results you have to put in the work and gym time. They just want a magic pill that will cut their body fat, give them bigger muscles, and make them stronger all at the same time and with minimal effort. Chances are if you read a forum like this you are not one of those people and if you choose to take supplements you have a pretty good idea of exactly what you are putting in your body already.

I agree 100%!!! Good response Bryan.

Bryan is a lifter who can put 400 pounds above his head and doesn’t mind stepping up for a drug test anytime. I know very few drug free lifters (who actually passed drug tests) who can do this all naturally – by good ole fashion hard training!!

Wait Al I think you might have taken a goofy pill. Bryan hasn’t put 400 over his head……yet. Give it time though.

Jesse

I know – I just have a secret gift of knowing how to motivate people!!! How can he NOT do it now??? haha

Just wait till tomorrows Daily News story and the new nickname I pinned on you.

Oh this could be interesting 🙂

I like the way that Al tried to get out of that one, Jesse. 🙂

We each have an optimum intake level of vitamins and minerals and supplements in general that is needed to maximize our health (and strength). There is no way to reach those levels just from food.

Undoubtedly there have been a few supplements on the market that have been targeted to athletes with claims like “better than steroids”, etc. The manufacturers have obviously hoped that people would be gullible enough to believe such crazy claims. Ultimate Orange was one product that had a lot of hype a few decades ago but was far from being good for a person’s health and was eventually banned by the FDA because it contained ephedra.

There are many other supplements that are not well known or hyped, however, but are effective in helping people maintain good health and combat various ailments. There are supplement manufacturers that have been around for decades and are considered to be very reputable. For them to be carefully scrutinized by any government agency would be akin to the TSA thoroughly checking out a 95 year old woman at an airport as if she were a potential terrorist!

It may be kind to say that Senator Durbin is “misguided”, as a close friend believes that he is being paid by Big Pharma. And she may be right! He apparently doesn’t seem to care about getting facts straight, as is evident by what I cut and pasted below, which is from the Alliance for Natural Health.

When he and any others of his ilk try to impose their will on me and many others like me, they will find that they are dealing with a formidable force, as Durbin may now realize as we responded in large numbers to our U. S. senators, which probably helped soundly defeat Durbin’s amendment. We won that battle but undoubtedly the war will never end!

Tom

———————————————

One of the things we found alarming in this amendment saga was the amount of misinformation in Sen. Durbin’s speech on the Senate floor last Wednesday. As you can see for yourself if you go to the C-SPAN video of the session and, in the Timeline section, scroll down and click on the 05:43:30 segment, you’ll hear Sen. Durbin say, “No one tests dietary supplements….Companies that make these products may test them if they wish, there’s no requirement under law that they test them, and there’s certainly no agency of government that tests dietary supplements….There’s just no testing involved.”

This is completely untrue — supplement companies, by law, must comply with the Dietary Supplement Current Good Manufacturing Practices (CGMPs) and must conduct testing throughout the production process as well as testing the finished product for quality control. As with the pharmaceutical industry, the burden is on supplement companies to test their own products, because in the end they are liable should FDA choose to take enforcement action against them.

One reason we are so concerned about legislation like Sen. Durbin’s is that it is clearly intended to put us on a slippery slope toward a supplement pre-approval system—similar to the system being used by the European Union, where only those vitamins and minerals on the approved list may be used in food supplements, and only in very limited amounts. For example, if a supplement contains more beta carotene than is present in half a large carrot, it is banned. A regulatory framework like the EU’s is exactly what Sen. Durbin wants.

Leave it to a Democrat to try and make more big government to protect us from ourselves….HAHA.

Thanks for the confidence Al. I haven’t pressed 400 yet, but I think I might start pressing out of a rack some and see how much more I can do without worrying about the clean too. Your motivational methods got me to try an over 200 James Lift so hopefully it works with my pressing.

[b]Quote from bbenzel on June 3, 2012, 16:11[/b]
Thanks for the confidence Al. I haven’t pressed 400 yet, but I think I might start pressing out of a rack some and see how much more I can do without worrying about the clean too. Your motivational methods got me to try an over 200 James Lift so hopefully it works with my pressing.

Yes, the way to improve pressing strength, Bryan, is to do presses off the rack, meaning that the bar is shouldered from squat stands. I also did presses inside a power rack during my prime but free-standing presses should be included in any pressing routine.

Tom