Apollon

[Tom Ryan]

Apollon

[Al Myers]

Tom, Have you seen pictures of Apollon in his latter days? I agree he may have only weighed 260 in his prime, but he surely was pushing 300 pounds in his latter years.

I greatly admire Joe Roarks research in trying to disprove mythical stories of old time strongmen. Several he has gathered enough information to make one wonder if some of the stories are indeed true. The problem now is the abscence of first hand witnesses as anyone who seen the performances are long dead.

I put all reported strength stories of old time strongman in that catagory – as just interesting stories and nothing more. Strength claims only fall into 2 catagories for me – official meet performances that are true and interesting stories that have mystical qualities that may be true or untrue. None the less, I find these stories very interesting in a folk tale type of way, but take them all with a “grain of salt” in being actual truths. Al

PS That one handed snatch of Apollons with the thick bar is another “story” in my mind. Willoughby reported it as a “near snatch” as Apollon only got it to the height of his head.

[Thom Van Vleck]

I have sure learned that in writing about the old timers you can’t win. If you report what has been alleged that they did…you get bombed with hate mail about perpetuating myths. If you say it and use the words “maybe”, “might have”, “alleged” or anything other than it’s a “STONE COLD FACT” you get bombed with hate mail that you are “disrespecting a legeng” and people saying “I was there, my Dad was there, my friend was there….are you calling us liars”!

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[Tom Ryan]

[b]Quote from dinoman on April 9, 2012, 10:08[/b]
Tom, Have you seen pictures of Apollon in his latter days? I agree he may have only weighed 260 in his prime, but he surely was pushing 300 pounds in his latter years.

I greatly admire Joe Roarks research in trying to disprove mythical stories of old time strongmen. Several he has gathered enough information to make one wonder if some of the stories are indeed true. The problem now is the abscence of first hand witnesses as anyone who seen the performances are long dead.

I put all reported strength stories of old time strongman in that catagory – as just interesting stories and nothing more. Strength claims only fall into 2 catagories for me – official meet performances that are true and interesting stories that have mystical qualities that may be true or untrue. None the less, I find these stories very interesting in a folk tale type of way, but take them all with a “grain of salt” in being actual truths. Al

PS That one handed snatch of Apollons with the thick bar is another “story” in my mind. Willoughby reported it as a “near snatch” as Apollon only got it to the height of his head.

Al,

I have seen various photos of Apollon so I may have seen one or two when he was quite heavy, but I can’t recall any specific photos. Willoughby gave his weight as 264 on pages 204 and 208 in listing certain strength feats of Apollon. The one-hand snatch you are referring to is when Apollon had an encounter with Marx, as described by Willoughby on page 180. Willoughby stated that Apollon refused to dip when he did a one-hand snatch, suggesting that Apollon practically thought that was cheating. 🙂
Obviously it would be difficult to do a stiff-legged snatch with any amount of weight when one is about 6-3. 🙂 And of course we don’t know if the weight simply slipped out of his hand because of the thick handle or was it also just too heavy for him to snatch to arms length.

The weight of that thick-handled barbell that Marx lifted just above his knees was 102.5 kilos = 225.97 pounds. Joe referred to a thick-handled barbell weighing 225 that Bienkowski couldn’t lift off the floor but Apollon one-hand snatched, so these may have been two different events.

Of course there is indeed a lot of uncertainty surrounding lifts made 100 or more years ago and some professional strongmen did engage in constant and deliberate deception. And folklore also gets in the way. Someone on the GoHeavy forum recently asked about Angus MacAskill and gave a link to his Wikipedia entry, which obviously contains some serious fiction, including the statement that Angus shouldered an anchor weighing well over 2,000 pounds and walked with it. According to Willoughby, the weight of the anchor was actually 600 pounds. Just a “slight” difference. 🙂

Tom

[Al Myers]

Tom, I was mistakenly thinking of the story with Marx from Willoughbys book.

Apollon was indeed a very strong man. However, there are very few pictures of him actually lifting. I have read that even him lifting his Apollons Wheels are questionable??? There are no pictures of him doing it for proof.

One thing we have to remember about Old Time Strongmen and their performances are that they were done as professional shows, and thus the entertainment factor was the main goal. Much like pro wrasslin today. That is why I have a hard time believing many of the reported strength claims. If an oldtime strongman could make a CONVINCING performance that would draw in the large crowds regardless of any “trickery”, that would make the promoters happy and the performer would get his paycheck.

You can’t really blame them for “staging” their performances. I’m not saying I wouldn’t do the same thing if I was in their shoes at the time. I would enlist my good friend Thom as my “consultant”, and between the two of us we could easily fake out the crowd because we all know that Thom is the master of weightlifting deception. (LOL). dinoman

[Thom Van Vleck]

Did you really have to got there, Al?

I will say this, I’m like Al, I NEVER lie, I just don’t disclose all the information until such a time as it is to my advantage.

When we do our “shows” we certainly add showmanship, and I will dramatize a lift, but I can say I’ve never ever lied about the weight on a bar. If anything, I’ve not disclosed a weight and let them think what they will. I know one time I had some rubber bumpers on a bar and took it and push pressed it for 10 reps and had the kids count along. There was 225 on the bar, when done I let it fall crashing to the floor. Later, I heard I lifted “400lbs” overhead! This is an example of how things can get out of had quickly. Also, I used to work at a lockdown behavioral unit. At 6’3″ and 300lbs I’m not a small guy….but later I heard that the kids were telling the new kids about me and after a turnover a couple of times of new kids…I became 7ft tall and 400lbs! I kid you not!

I think this is what happens to the old timers! Another thing I thing they may have done. They many have done a lift, let’s say a 300lb clean and press. Then in their shows, say, “300lbs clean and press” and then lift something lighter and let the audience assume that’s their best lift. Also, back then, you blow out a knee, you end up an invalid. No fancy orthopedic surgeons to save your career, no government medicare or social security to fall back on….you were SCREWED! I would do the same as many of them in the cirucmstances. MOST of them were legitimately super strong, some were charlatans.

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[Al Myers]

haha Good response Thom.

I can’t believe it took two days before you noticed my post. You know I was just kidding you about being the “master of weightlifting deception”. I know your shows are legit and have made a very positive influence on lots of people. However I have heard of some evangelist strength shows where “things were fixed”. That is the ultimate in hypocrisy and deception. Spreading the word while lying about your performance is inexcusable!!!

[Thom Van Vleck]

I have been a busy guy lately! However, I agree that there are some groups out there doing some fake stuff. I felt like if we lied about the feats or weights and people caught on, then they would question what we said. I know you were pulling my leg….you really know how to get me going even when I KNOW that’s what you are trying to do….you are a good fisherman!

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[Steve Angell]

[b]Quote from dinoman on April 12, 2012, 10:52[/b]
haha Good response Thom.

However I have heard of some evangelist strength shows where “things were fixed”. That is the ultimate in hypocrisy and deception. Spreading the word while lying about your performance is inexcusable!!!

Al , this is my biggest hate in sport (And in life for that matter). Seeing the drug cheat drop to his knees and pray after his win. Or see a cheat thank God for his victory! I have always said, they are cheating their fans, their selves and most of all GOD!!!!!

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