Da Rules

[KCSTRONGMAN]

Da Rules

I'm the lyrical Jesse James

[Thom Van Vleck]

HAHA…I agree, ET.

Judging is still a VERY subjective endeavor…even with all the rules. I bet I could red light 100% of lifts if I wanted to be a jerk and expand every rule beyond it’s intent.

What started this was a video of a guy dropping a Jefferson lift. I looked at that and saw something entirely different. I would have passed the first lift and warned the guy then redlighted the next attempt if he did it again. Had no bearing on what was a great lift….just a rule put in place to protect platforms and equipment from damage and never intended to be the definition of whether the lift was good or not.

I just wanted to stir the pot a little….haha.

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[Anonymous]

What is surprising is it looked Murdock was the judge and he is super strict.

[Al Myers]

Good discussion.

Every NFL game I watch I see penalties which I feel should/should not be called. And they have instant replay! These guys are professional officials (unlike us!) and still officiating mistakes happen. I told my daughters years ago when participating in youth sports to NOT get upset by an officials call, even if it was obviously wrong. You have to assume they are doing their very best to call a good game, and like the athletes, sometimes don’t always perform perfectly.

Another thing the USAWA rulebook is FAR FROM PERFECT. Over the past few years it has been dramatically improved however, and hopefully will continue so. We have a great system now of addressing issues as they occur and updating the rulebook EVERY YEAR when problems are found. Practically every meet I see something that needs addressed and/or better clarified in the rulebook. These issues are then presented to the EB for discussion, and a plan is made to correct the situation.

As for the lift in question, I was at that meet and didn’t think anything of it at the time. The lift was followed to the knees before dropping (like in MOST deadlift type lifts). Yet our general rules state,XI.14. “Dropping the bar is a disqualification. The bar must be under control by the lifter in the return to the platform.” At one time (before bumper plates) this meant having the hands on the bar the entire time, but now leniency is given here. Everyone reading this has been guilty of this (not keeping hands on the bar till platform) at some time or another, but yet received a passing lift! Maybe it’s time that rule becomes modified to better represent the actual rule?

Another point – things look different in videos than live. Now with YouTube and every lift being critiqued by video coverage, it is easy to be critical watching. Yet an angle change can affect the entire perspective. How many times you watch an NFL replay from a different angle and things look completely different??? All the time!

Good discussion. Al

[KCSTRONGMAN]

.but now leniency is given here
Is that typical? I have never seen and deadlift type events in the USAWA where the lifter dropped the bar from the knees. I have never seen anything in PL (and I have not done a HUGE amount of that) where a bar was not controlled with hands on it all the way to the ground. I saw a couple lifts (done by the same lifter) in strongman done where they dropped the bar from lockout and were given the lift-it made me sick. Mainly because I made the extra effort to do it in the way that I always had leanred was proper only to find out after that it was acceptable to return the bar in any sloppy, uncontrolled manner. I could have saved the effort. I can see it in a oly type movement where the bar is coming from a higher level and the arms and shoulders are also involved, and bumpers are used. However, even under these circumstances, I still prefer to keep control of the bar until it is on the floor. Anyhoo, good discussion.

I'm the lyrical Jesse James

[Anonymous]

For the record it doesn’t bother me one way or the other that the lift was passed. I have always lived by the rule that if the judged passed it, its good. But I still think murdock is one of the strictest judges I have ever seen. I had to hold a bent over row for an eternity with him judging one time:) I have been called at a powerlifting meet for setting a bar down too hard and I have seen meets where guys got the down call and the bar slipped from their hands and they were given the lift as the down call had been given.

[Thom Van Vleck]

Let’s talk a bit about “WHY” we bring the bar down. Back in the day they lifted on wooden gym floors and stages were dropping a weight could cause serious damage. The weights were all cast iron and weren’t the bumpers of today. And to prevent damage to the bar and the weights.

If you bring the bar down where it lands solidly on both sides at the same time with bumpers, that’s “under control” to me as long as it’s on a platform sitting on concrete. So it’s the three factors above I consider….but I also think sportsmanship might play into that as well if someone slam dunks the weight…..I’d red light that.

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[Al Myers]

I’m in full agreement with what Thom just said.

I always try to follow the bar to the platform with my hands (but maybe not in a full grip). I do this because I would hate to lose a lift because of a drop when the “hard work” was already done. The problem with overhead lifts is that with bumpers the bar tends to bounce and can cause impact issues to the hands and fingers. This has happened to me many times – as I’m sure others as well.

At one time the zercher was required to be set back on the knees and then lifted to the platform. Thank goodness that isn’t required anymore!

I do agree with ET that it is unsportsmanlike to drop the bar with intention (even though it might not be called). Also – I’ll repeat that the rules are written to say that “Dropping the bar is a disqualification. The bar must be under control by the lifter in the return to the platform”. An official has full rule authority to red light any lift they feel are in violation of this.

[Author]

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