Dave Brown

[Al Myers]

Dave Brown

[0722143772]

dave brown is very agile and athletic for ANYBODY!!

[Thom Van Vleck]

uhhh….he’d be in my weight class, right? Uhhh….NO, I think he’d be TERRIBLE! No Way! hahahaha

Actually, I’d like to see Dave do it for this reason. He IS very, very strong AND very, very athletic and he might be a guy that could prove that a big man could win in a formula system! If he couldn’t do it, then it would prove (at least to me) that there’s no way a big guy could win in the formula system.

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[Al Myers]

Thom, Oh the dreaded formulas! I do agree that it is impossible to firmly say formulas are completely fair. However, it is the only solution in comparing lifters in different weight classes. I do think the formula the USAWA uses (the Lynch Formula) is more favorable to heavier lifters than other formulas, but that is just my opinion. Last year at Worlds, Mark Haydock, a heavyweight lifter from England, took top honors with the Lynch Formula. I also have the Sinclair, O’Carrol, and Schwartz formulas. I ought to “recalculate” with them to see if there is any difference in the top placings compared to the Lynch Formula. What other formulas are there? Al

[Thom Van Vleck]

Personally, I like weight classes AND age groups in lifting and would like to keep them so nobody take this the wrong way. I’m not here to change the USAWA! I will admit to wondering what the big deal is about handicapping the lifters with formulas as I think it is like comparing apples and oranges….you can’t quantify a human being! But, you will NEVER see me come to a meeting and promote dropping the formulas, but I will fight for the right for events like my “straight weight challenge” as the occassional alternative.

But think about it, is there weight classes in football, height classes in basketball, weight divisions in track & field events? I once sent a story to MILO about the 190lbs and under Nationals in Highlands Games and he very respectfully turned it down. When I asked why he said his opinion was people came to see the guy throw the furthest, not the guy throw the furthest for his size (or something along those lines). I disagreed with that decision but it is a reality for some people.

Now, what other sports handicap their players? I can think of a couple off the top of my head: Bowling and Golf. Can you imagine going to a track meet and having Usain bolt have to run 200 yards against me running the 100 yard dash because he gets handicapped for his age and weight? (Ok, so he’d probably have to run a mile for me to beat him in the 100, but that’s besides the point!)

Soon, I will be going the Masters World championships in Denver for Highland Games. I am in the 45-49 age group and I’m happy about that! But since the MWC moves from venue to venue they often take on the various rules of the region they throw in. The RMSA has a formula to handicap masters throwers. While the MWC will NOT be doing that, it was brought up. I don’t like it as when I’ve thrown RMSA you have NO idea where you are at during the day. I threw in Gillette, Wyoming a few years back and this situation arose. I cleared 32′ on the last event of the day and had won that event at that point. I was ready to quit even though I had more attempts. I then found out that, based on the formula, I had to get 32’6″ for the win. Which I then did. But it was right before they broke down the uprights and once they did that I’d been screwed. If we could develop a computer program that would instantly tell the lifter where he was at and he could base his attempts accordingly PLUS the spectator know what was going on, that would be great.

Hopefully, I don’t put anyone off on this or get “red lettered”. I can have an opinion and at the end of the day go along with the group. I do it all the time….especially with my wife! So, no hate please.

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[Al Myers]

Thom, First of all, I agree with everything you said (but maybe not to the extreme you do – i.e. Usain Bolt would have to run at least TWO miles compared to your 100 meters for you to win). The USAWA/IAWA does award individual body weight class winners and gives Best Lifters Awards within age groups at the big meets (Nationals and Worlds). This allows competition ONLY against those that are in the same situation as you in regards to age and body weight. The problem is that often this is very limited with the low number of overall competitors that compete.

The powerlifting organization I use to compete in had the philosophy that it was best to “let” everyone be a winner, by creating so many classes and divisions that it was practically impossible for you to have anyone to “directly” compete against. Everyone came home with a first place trophy (which MOST lifters liked and on a business viewpoint was probably a good idea – but that is ANOTHER discussion). And if you wanted to pay a little more and enter multiple divisions you could come home with MANY first place trophies! I thought THAT was ridiculous. At least formulas create a comparison between athletes of different ages and bodyweights!

Thom – We have discussed this many times in the past and it always seems that we disagree to agree, and in reality feel the same on this issue. I think a balance of both ways of recognizing performance is the way to go – and the USAWA does a better job of this than other weightlifting organizations. Al

[Thom Van Vleck]

HEY, if Usain Bolt had to carry a 100lb plate on his back and two 25’s tied to each foot….I could beat him….that would make me and him the same bodyweight!

Al, are you telling me to let it go? That’s what my wife eventually tells me.

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[Ben Edwards]

I still like the idea of formulas and being able to compete fairly with many other people. Even though this same practice is what at least half a dozen lifters (guys on various internet forums that have expressed interest in USAWA competitions) have recently told me is the sole reason they’re not interested in the USAWA competitions. Can’t please everyone all the time and I wasn’t apologetic for the formulas and told them that I supported the formula system totally.

And Dave Brown would be a HUGE asset to the USAWA! I’m still kicking myself for missing a chance to meet him back in February.

https://goalorientedtraining.wordpress.com/

[Al Myers]

Ben – I have heard that “same story” from lifters for years when I have tried to talk them into All-Round Lifting. “I don’t like the formulas” ranks right up there with “I don’t want to get hurt”, “The lifts are too dangerous”, “I can’t do that lift”, “I got a bad knee and got to wear knee wraps”, and on and on.

I really don’t think the USAWA’s use of formulas for placement is what keeps lifters away from competing in our organization. I have had meets in the past(at the Dino Challenge) where I DIDN’T use formulas, and had weight group divisions instead. Guess what? It didn’t help attendance. Thom promoting the “Straight Weight Challenge Postal Meet” (where NO formulas are going to be used) this month will also prove this. It will be lucky to draw 10 participants (PLEASE, membership, make me eat my words on this!).

My opinion why All-Round Weightlifting fails to draw membership is because there are SO many lifts that it is impossible to be good at everything, and too many lifters have too big of an EGO to look bad learning a new lift, or performing a lift that doesn’t suit their body mechanics. It is just easier for them NOT to compete in the USAWA, give some lame excuse like “I don’t like formulas”, instead of showing the world that they can only do a 135# Steinborn Squat when they can power squat over 600#. Al

[Thom Van Vleck]

Al, take it easy! hahaha

I agree with your assessment. I have already started promoting my Nationals and the question I get is “What lifts” because if there’s one lift they don’t want to do because they think they will look bad, then they will not do it!

I’ll never forget Ol’ Clark slipping out of his chair when I failed at 145lb on the pinky deadlift and he limped up to the bar and pulled it right up. Had I been 20 years younger I’d probably been like, “This stuff is a joke”. But being older (much older….haha) and more mature (no comments from Dave) I laughed off Al’s hysterical laughter as Bill completed the lift! It’s all in fun and the pay off is when you hit that one lift that is “your baby” and you really shine! That’s always a cool moment when you are at a meet and somebody pulls out a lift that fits their leverages and it makes your jaw drop. Like Chad on the Arthur lift, or Mark on the Reeves Deadlift. That’s where the focus needs to be!!!!!

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[Al Myers]

So true, so true.. You got me laughing with that post Thom, especially recalling Bill and the Finger Deadlift! I will remind you of that moment forever. Al

[Thom Van Vleck]

The only thing I recall about that day is the cheat curl….

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[Ben Edwards]

[b]Quote from dinoman on July 12, 2010, 17:34[/b]
So true, so true.. You got me laughing with that post Thom, especially recalling Bill and the Finger Deadlift! I will remind you of that moment forever. Al

Thom and I have no idea what you’re talking about Al…

On a serious note, getting schooled by Bill in that lift was a big push for me to bring up my pinky finger deadlift. I think 200lbs would rise now on Al’s bar (the one we used at the Dino Grip) for me because I tested it last night and got it off the ground on my setup but didn’t want to snap anything so I let it drop.

https://goalorientedtraining.wordpress.com/

[Al Myers]

Sorry Ben – but I got pictures!!

Another note – our forum got its first HOT TOPIC!! Al

[Thom Van Vleck]

Oh, that’s just great! My getting schooled on the pinky deadlift pushed us over the top on the first “hot topic”.

I don’t suppose I can claim now that I “let” Bill beat me. Like I somehow knew that if I failed, that Bill would come up, do it, and then I “pretended” to fail again several times just to make a good story? Would anyone believe that….I guess not. HAHA

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[Al Myers]

Thom – I don’t believe it!! But I’m not one to talk – I am the one that once got beat by Mary Mac at the Goerner DL in ALL the finger deadlifts. Bill went to great lengths to report that in the Journal several times. One important ingredient in being an All-Rounder is being able to “laugh” at yourself!! Al

[Thom Van Vleck]

….don’t you mean “Laugh at yourself while others are laughing at you!” haha!

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[Al Myers]

I pretend not to notice.

[Author]

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