Lance Armstrong Dirty

[Al Myers]

Lance Armstrong Dirty

[dwagman]

On the 17th they’re going to air what Armstrong said to Oprah. I’d like to hear this to see what he actually admitted to. Here’s what his lawyer had to say and I’d really like him to take USADA to court:

Responding to the press release previewing USADA’s report, Armstrong’s attorney Tim Herman called it a “one-sided hatchet job – a taxpayer funded tabloid piece rehashing old, disproved, unreliable allegations based largely on axe-grinders, serial perjurers, coerced testimony, sweetheart deals and threat -induced stories.”

“Ignoring the 500-600 tests Lance Armstrong passed, ignoring all exculpatory evidence, and trying to justify the millions of dollars USADA has spent pursuing one, single athlete for years, USADA has continued its government funded witch hunt of only Mr. Armstrong, a retired cyclist, in violation of its own rules and due process, in spite of USADA’s lack of jurisdiction, in blatant violation of the statute of limitations, and without honoring… national and international rules,” Herman said in a statement.

—
Dan

For Body Intellect Brochure click here: https://www.icloud.com/keynote/0fcsokZWooW_1B1uZmL1AI5fA#BI-DW

Those who are enamored of practice without science
are like a pilot who goes onto a ship without rudder or
compass and never has any certainty to where he is going.
Leonardo Da Vinci; 1452-1519

[dwagman]

I like going to the source when I hear stuff. The media in this country seems to be just too biased to be trusted. So I downloaded the USADA Armstrong report. Seems like a bunch of hearsay to me, and there are other problems. Here’s a sample, from page 34:

j. Testosterone use and administration at the Tour de France
U.S. Postal Service Team riders were also using testosterone during the 1999 Tour de France. Hamilton saw Armstrong using the “oil”, which was a mixture of olive oil and Andriol (testosterone) developed by Dr. Ferrari, and on at least one occasion during the 1999 Tour Armstrong squirted the “oil” in Hamilton’s mouth after a stage of the race.145 Dr. del Moral also provided testosterone to Hincapie1 and Vande Velde1 during the race.

I have to call bullshit on this for a few reasons, which I want you to know, is not my opinion, rather fact.

1. You cannot take any steroid, get tested, and pass the test. This is impossible, unless you wait a long, long time for it to clear your system. And in that event, what sort of ergogenic effect remains? Realize first, that the testing methods used by WADA is so sensitive, it can detect 1 part per billion. That’s the equivalent of finding 1 minute in 2,000 years or 1 penny in 10,000,000 bucks.

Now, you also can’t develop a “designer” steroid that’s undetectable. The reason for this is that all steroids share a common base molecule, otherwise it’s not a steroid. Therefore, whatever you do to that base molecule, it’s still a steroid and therefore it can be detected by the detection devices employed by WADA. When they get the readout, they might not know what sort of steroid it is, but they’ll know it’s a steroid. And that’s all that matters because according to WADA, “steroids and all related compounds” are banned.

So why wasn’t this detected? This “evidence” is hokey, to be polite, and wouldn’t stand a chance in a court of law.

2. Oral administration of testosterone has been proven to be a worthless ergogenic approach. You’ll still pee positive, however. This in and of itself not only places the credibility of the witnesses in question, but also their professionalism.

Man, I don’t know if I even want to read on. I probably will. You interested? Click the link that follows, then the first links to “download” or “read” on the page:

http://pdfdog.org/pdf/USADA%20Report%20on%20Lance%20Armstrong

—
Dan

For Body Intellect Brochure click here: https://www.icloud.com/keynote/0fcsokZWooW_1B1uZmL1AI5fA#BI-DW

Those who are enamored of practice without science
are like a pilot who goes onto a ship without rudder or
compass and never has any certainty to where he is going.
Leonardo Da Vinci; 1452-1519

[Al Myers]

Dan, I don’t fully agree with everything you said. I do believe there are “designer steroids” that are beyond WADA’s testing methods. Even though “most” basic anabolic steroids have similiar base structures, small changes in the molecular periphery can make a totally new compound, with major pharmacologic differences. I don’t see how testing for steroidal base structures would be a definitive test, as you would have interence with endogenous hormones.

After all, wasn’t this the issue with the BALCO incident and the “designer steroids” that the professional athletes were taking, yet still passing tests? Also, I’m sure you have read this already but I want to link it for others to read – http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1402217/

This study supports what I have just said, but I’m open minded about things so I’ll be awaiting your response! haha Al

[dwagman]

Al, I had not previously read that research. Thank you for sharing it.

I think that there is a misconception out there, however. It is my understanding that GC/MS can detect anything, even “designer” steroids (and I was referring to GC/MS in my parts per billion explanation earlier). The system might not know what steroid it is, but it’ll know that it’s a steroid. The problem is that in analyzing samples, the machine might be set to only look for known compounds. That is the issue.

I would also say that if the basic steroid molecule is not present, then it’s not a steroid. And just because the drug holds some commonalities with a steroid, that does not mean it’ll enhance performance. Consider that nobody would argue that your wife’s estrogen is a steroid. And nobody would argue that if you took estrogen, you wouldn’t get stronger (though perhaps prettier 🙂 ). So to believe that just because a designer steroid was created, and an athlete takes it, that doesn’t automatically mean that ergogenic properties are attached to this drug. Indeed, many of the therapeutically used testosterones (T) hold differences in properties, both therapeutically and ergogenically. So even T isn’t T.

Please also consider that in testing, WADA doesn’t only look at the presence of a certain, specific compound. They also look at other markers as evidence that something screwy is going on. As an example, when we’re talking about steroid use, they would also look for changes in luteinizing hormone (LH). Because LH stimulates the gonads in men to produce T, if you’re taking exogenous steroids, then your body knows that it need not produce T and thus reduces or all together stops production. This is in part accomplished because LH levels are decreased. So when steroid use is suspected, then a confirmation is reduced levels of LH.

So say an athlete uses a designer steroid. If the machine is set properly, then they can see in the printout that there’s a steroid, but they don’t know what kind. Then they could look at LH. If they find LH suppressed, then it’s pretty certain that the steroid is indeed a steroid and since steroids “and all related compounds” are banned, the athlete is considered positive. Of course for various political and organizational reasons, this might not result in a ban.

Please don’t take the above to mean that I don’t believe that there are designer drugs being developed and used in sport, even some things that might be undetectable. But just because somebody takes a steroid, that doesn’t mean performance will be enhanced. There’s probably a ton of plant sterols I could chew on, on my way to the Dino Gym this weekend. And if the lab you use tests for this, I’ll probably pee positive and you guys will kick me out of the organization. That’s a fact. But it’s an equal fact that I most certainly wouldn’t have ended up lifting more weight because of it. It just ain’t that simple.

Tag, you’re it…

—
Dan

For Body Intellect Brochure click here: https://www.icloud.com/keynote/0fcsokZWooW_1B1uZmL1AI5fA#BI-DW

Those who are enamored of practice without science
are like a pilot who goes onto a ship without rudder or
compass and never has any certainty to where he is going.
Leonardo Da Vinci; 1452-1519

[Thom Van Vleck]

Careful, Dan….Al likes to get guys like us all fired up for his own entertainment. And you are very entertaining so keep going! Seriously, I do enjoy your posts and believe it or not, I read them all!

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[dwagman]

Actually, the thought of Al using estrogen, and its effects on him (or her), is getting me strangely excited. This weekend might be fun in more ways than one…

—
Dan

For Body Intellect Brochure click here: https://www.icloud.com/keynote/0fcsokZWooW_1B1uZmL1AI5fA#BI-DW

Those who are enamored of practice without science
are like a pilot who goes onto a ship without rudder or
compass and never has any certainty to where he is going.
Leonardo Da Vinci; 1452-1519

[dwagman]

Oh, one more point about Lance…

As I reread what I posted, I can see where some of you might think that I’m supporting Lance, that I reject the idea that he used performance-enhancing drugs, that I’m a Lance fan, etc. In truth, I could care less about Lance and what he did or didn’t do. It also has no impact on the good he’s done with his foundation and the people he’s helped. But what gets me all fired up is the witch-hunt based on hearsay. Whatever happened to due process? This guy is being chastised by he-said she-said. I thought we evolved beyond that.

I can’t wait to see what he actually told Oprah. And if he actually did admit to drug use, that doesn’t justify the approach used. Then again, cops use lies and deceit to get people to talk all the time, and like dumbasses they admit to stuff. Hmmmm…maybe I should rethink my position…

—
Dan

For Body Intellect Brochure click here: https://www.icloud.com/keynote/0fcsokZWooW_1B1uZmL1AI5fA#BI-DW

Those who are enamored of practice without science
are like a pilot who goes onto a ship without rudder or
compass and never has any certainty to where he is going.
Leonardo Da Vinci; 1452-1519

[Al Myers]

Wow Dan – that didn’t take ya long for a comeback!!!

But you’re changing the debate here. I absolutely agree that not all steroids have sports enhancing effects. In fact, several steroids can have adverse effects to the strength athlete (ie catabolic steroids).

I understand now that the WADA looks at other hormonal markers to come to a decision on a positive test. To me that seems to open up a “can of worms” as to making any correct interpretations. There are so many factors that can change the levels of LH in a person, both hormonally and therapeutic. This is a hormone that I deal with on a daily basis, as it is critical to reproductive function. I often have to make therapeutic decisions based on the adverse effects of prednisone on LH, which in turn affects fertility in animals. It’s proven that prednisone usage decreases LH release (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6827210) in animals.

Given that this drug is a common steroid used to treat several medical issues (ie asthma) in people, does the WADA take these things into consideration when they are trying to interpret a postive drug test based on LH levels? This is just one of many examples why basing testing on LH is a bad idea and inconclusive in my opinion.

But back to the main issue and it seems that you are now in agreement with me on it – that there ARE “designer steroids” that may be used that are untestable at this point in time. Al

[61pwcc]

Let me start by saying for every penny’s worth I’ve spent learning about PED, I’ve spent 100$ worth on training and diet. What little bit I know may contradict Dan’s statement: You cannot take any steroid, get tested, and pass the test. This is impossible, unless you wait a long, long time for it to clear your system.
According to what I’ve READ, many of the former Communist countries used nasal inhaled steroids that were “in and out” in 15 minutes. HIGHLY androgenic/toxic but impossible to detect. Remember I ADMITTEDLY know almost next to nothing and realize I am probably wrong. I’m curious if this is BS or truth. Dan?

[dwagman]

Al, please note that all I said is that LH is but one more piece to the puzzle that WADA can and does use. In fact, that was part of the evidence used against Eddy Coan in ’97. I was there (testifying to get the USPF kicked out of the IPF) and he was GONE. It was AWESOME!

As to designer drugs being undetectable? Sorry, but I don’t buy that. Perhaps in 2005, when your previous reference was published, there were still some limitations. But for the past few years I’m sure that GC/MS can detect anything. But if the will isn’t there to do so, and to set the machines accordingly, then indeed many things won’t be detected. Clearly, then, athletes shouldn’t bear the brunt of the outrage.

As to detecting anything with the base steroid molecule, designer or otherwise, I wrote Don Catlin, director of the UCLA Olympic Analytical Lab. We’ve had many long conversations back when I was Science Editor for M&F. I’ll fill you guys in on his answer as soon as I get it.

On the Russian nasal thing…I don’t know for fact whether they did this or not. But what I do know, is that from a biological perspective, any anabolic androgenic steroid you’d take that would enter your system that quickly, and exit it that quickly, wouldn’t be able to effect any notable ergogenic benefits. We see that with sublingual T.

—
Dan

For Body Intellect Brochure click here: https://www.icloud.com/keynote/0fcsokZWooW_1B1uZmL1AI5fA#BI-DW

Those who are enamored of practice without science
are like a pilot who goes onto a ship without rudder or
compass and never has any certainty to where he is going.
Leonardo Da Vinci; 1452-1519

[Al Myers]

Thanks Dan for that response. I hope to believe that you are correct in thinking that ALL PED’s can now be detected with advanced testing. That means the “testers” are getting ahead of the “users”. Afterall, the term “designer steroid” is defined as an anabolic steroid that had been pharmocologically “designed” to be able to be used, and yet yield a negative drug test for the user. Other than that it is still just a roid being used to gain performance advantages!!

Now I got to take the rest of the day off and watch Ophrah!!! haha Dinoman

[Al Myers]

I’ve never watch Oprah before – what channel is this thing on???

[KCSTRONGMAN]

Nice ruse Al. We all know you know what channel it is on.
ET

I'm the lyrical Jesse James

[Chad Ullom]

Just hit fav on your remote, it should go right there

[Al Myers]

Who would have known that Oprah has her own channel!!!!!

Did anyone else watch the Armstrong interview last night???? And does anyone believe that he is telling the truth NOW???

[Anonymous]

I could really care less, he isn’t the 1st person who got caught in fact they have proven that in most of the races they would have had to go about 4-10 places in order to give the win to someone who wasn’t connected to PEDs. He got caught and finally owned up to it. What is sad is now they are attacking his character and he gave millions for cancer research, that’s a lot more than many people can ever say.

Jesse

[Author]

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