Men vs. Women

[KCSTRONGMAN]

Men vs. Women

I'm the lyrical Jesse James

[Dale Friesz]

I have been with the USAWA since day one. The concept was to have a male competition and a female competition – each with their own awards! Remember that Bill Clark who created this group is the person responsible for women being allowed to compete in any of the competitions of the various lifting organizations – and I don’t mean just MASTERS.
No offense to any one person or any organization – let us leave the tea in the Boston harbor! – Dale –

[Denny Habecker]

I agree that the men and woman should have completly separate divisions.

[Thom Van Vleck]

Make that 4-0…..I appreciate that men and women are BOTH allowed to lift, but keep it separate.

I have about 10 different reasons that I don’t even want to go into due to some of them causing arguments. I’ll just put my vote in for now.

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[KCSTRONGMAN]

I was hoping to argue with you Thom
ET

I'm the lyrical Jesse James

[Al Myers]

I was hoping Big T would say something that would upset the Professor.

[KCSTRONGMAN]

Always stirring the pot, Al…Always stirring the pot
ET

I'm the lyrical Jesse James

[Scott Tully]

I agree with all of you, keep it separate, if you want to score a overall meet lifter, then no 33%. Your not getting me this time Al, lol.

St

[Al Myers]

I would guess that this would be the majority view of USAWA members – that men and women compete separately in different divisions.

Formulas, adjustments, and allowances never correct 100% to give fair competition. I DO feel that the Lynch Formula (the bodyweight correction that the USAWA/IAWA uses) is about as good as it gets. My feeling is based on the study I did on this a year or so ago. However, how did this 33% ever come about? Is it just a random picked percentage, or was there a statistical review done to derive it?

Some would argue that equal rights (between men and women) should prevail, and men and women should be able to compete for the same big prize (that being overall best lifter of the meet). But when you have to do this by giving a handicap percentage, is it truly equal? I say not. Now if it is done WITHOUT a gender percentage allowance, that is another story altogether.

I would like to hear how the women lifters feel on this. Al

[Anonymous]

It would be interesting to test how accurate the 33% is. Women’s athletics records seem to be about 10-15% behind men?

Just had a quick look at weighlifting world records and women’s 69kg class is about 80% of men’s 69kg class. But this may be due to the relative newness of women weightlifting, and in the future the gap may even decrease?

[Chad Ullom]

I agree that it should be kept seperate.

[Thom Van Vleck]

Isn’t that like saying women are two thirds of a man when you say they get 1/3rd added to their score?
Oh…another thing….
A real man doesn’t beat women…HAHAHA

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[dwagman]

There are two points I’d like to make.

1. Al’s original question regarded the wording of the rule, which states: Competitions are to be organized for both men and women. This wording is ambiguous, allowing both sides to make a valid argument for their point of view. If USAWA and IAWA want to limit confusion, then this should be reworded to either read “Competitions are to be organized separately for men and women,” or “Competitions are to be organized combining men and women.”

Of course there may be times when a meet director might actually want to find out who the overall best lifters are, regardless of gender. In that case, how ’bout rewording it to read “Competitions can be organized to contest men and women either separately and/or combined”?

2. Several of you questioned the 33% calculation for women. That’s certainly a valid concern. But if this is to be evaluated, then it should be based on some sound science and statistical analysis. And if that’s done, then all-round weightlifting also needs to look at the validity of all of the percentage adjustments by age. There’s certainly no science out there that supports the contention that a person loses 1% in performance per year starting at age 40, at least as it relates to strength and power, there is some support for this as it relates to endurance sports. Well, there is also scientific evidence showing that power production decreases first with advanced age, followed by force production (strength) some time down the road. Regardless, if the membership feels that a rational assessment regarding the womens percentage allowance is in order, then the same should be done for other percentage adjustments.

I suppose the main question, then, is whether this can of worms, er, chalk box, should be opened at all. Any thoughts?

Dan

—
Dan

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Leonardo Da Vinci; 1452-1519

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