One-Hand Snatch

[Tom Ryan]

One-Hand Snatch

[Roger Davis]

Al,

A great article as usual.

Just one brief observation to throw into the mix.

In my comps with the IAWA I have noticed that the Brits tend to perform a split technique on the one hand snatch and my American brethren a power snatch method.

I wonder why this difference has developed ?????

Roger

[61pwcc]

Probably just a POWERful way to SPLIT the difference. Just had to SNATCH the opportunity.

[Tom Ryan]

Don’t everybody all jump in at once with your answers to my quiz question. 🙂 I’ll post the answer in a day or two if all of you give up.

[Chad Ullom]

Roger,
I guess it depends on background and influence imo. We were watching some old Usawa videos, and they used it do it more like the English currently do. Speaking just for myself, I’m sure that’s the way Al showed me and it felt more comfortable so I stuck with that style. I know my form is pretty bad on all my oly lifts, my 1 arm snatch is somewhere around 80% of my regular also

[Al Myers]

Tom, First of all THANK YOU for your thought provoking response to this story, and the information you provided. (I printed it off and added it to my research file for future reference). I wish I could give you a “guess” to your quiz question but I don’t even have any good guesses. I would find it hard for anyone to have had a higher percentage than Rigoulot (his best one arm snatch was 253# compared to his two arm snatch of 315#, for a percentage slightly over 80%) But he wasn’t an American lifter so he wouldn’t be a choice.

Now for the One Arm Snatch versus the One Hand Snatch debate –

This was a change made in terminology in the “updated” USAWA Rulebook of 2009. I did the re-write and was the one responsible for making this big change so I should at least give my reasoning behind it. (whether you agree that is another issue). One at first would just think it was a play on semantics – after all, you can have only one hand on one arm. But my thoughts on this was deeper when I made this name change on several of the lifts. The terms “two hands” and “one hands” have been used for years describing lifts instead of “one arm”. But I think the names of our all-round lifts should describe them as accurately as possible, thus leaving the least chance of confusion. If you think about it – it is possible to do several of our “one arm” lifts without a hand, but with only an arm. You may have to wear a prosthetic or have a partial gripping surface on the end of a long bone to allow support of the lift. I have a very good friend who I hunt and fish with that is missing one of his hands and he can do surprising tasks with his disabled arm. (including shooting better than me and handling a fishing pole better). I would no doubt predict he could do several of the “one arm” lifts, especially the pressing lifts. It would be insulting to call a lift a one handed lift when someone without a hand could do them!! I’m all for keeping it real!!!

Also Tom, remember I picked the smartest man I know to do the editing of the Rulebook before I submitted it to the membership for vote and I don’t recall this being mentioned at the time. LOL

Roger – In the all-rounds I have always considered the English lifters more technical in their lifting technique than the American lifters, and thus I think this is the reason the English lifters usually split with the One Arm Snatch while the American lifters power snatch it. We (the Americans) rely on brute strength and exposiveness while the English lifters rely more on proper technique and leverages. Several of the other all-round lifts also fit this example. Al

[Tom Ryan]

Flattery will get you nowhere, Al. 🙂

I readily admit that I did not think about the possibility of a person without a hand doing a one-arm snatch when I was going through your rulebook draft.

Okay, the answer to my quiz question is given below, in addition to the runner-up performances.

The first number in parentheses is the one-arm lift; the second is the two-arm lift.

1. Dick Bachtell, 1931 (154, 159.5) 96.6%

2. Gaukler, 1929 (110, 121) 90.9

3. M. Rohrer, 1929 (154, 170.5) 90.3

4. Arnie Sundberg, 1931 (165, 187) 88.2

5. David Rothman, 1935 (99, 115.5) 85.7

Needless to say, these are extreme combinations of lifts! These are also lifters from the lighter classes with Sundberg of the 165-lb. class being the heaviest. Bill Good did (192.5, 247.5; 77.8%) in both 1934 and 1935. I believe that Good was generally either slighter under or slightly over the 181 class limit during the mid-30s, so a 192.5 snatch, the highest he made in a national championship, is pretty impressive for someone of that size.

Remember that I am considering only the weight class winners for each year as Hoffman’s book Weight Lifting , first published in 1939 and revised in 1960, gives results only for the class winners. The complete results were probably given in Strength magazine for the competitions in 1929-1931, but I don’t think I have any of those issues, although I may have xeroxed some of the contest results 20 or so years ago from a friend who has those issues. Not sure about that.

Some of our Pa. members have probably interacted with Bachtell (1906-1990), as he worked for Hoffman. Here is his Wikipedia entry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Bachtell . I didn’t know him but I was sitting at the juice bar in the York Barbell building in 1966 at the time of the Senior Nationals and Bachtell was standing behind the counter. In referring to the fans who were there to see the competition, he said something like “They don’t know how much work it takes to reach this level”.

Incidentally, in case any of you are wondering how I happened to know about Cayeux’s letter regarding Rigoulot, this is discussed on page 93 in the 8-page biographical sketch of Rigolout in Volume 1 of Anvils, Horseshoes, and Cannons by Leo Gaudreau. (There is no mention of to whom Cayeux wrote his letter.)

That two-volume set is extremely rare. Notice the price for a used set on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Anvils-horseshoes-cannons-history-strongmen/dp/B0007B754G.
It would take far more money than that price to motivate me to part with my set, as I am not interested in selling it. I’m talking really huge bucks. 🙂

[61pwcc]

That is VERY cool. I’ve always been impressed with the lifters of the past. Even with the drugs, latest supplements, equipment, many of the records still remain. I’m sure many of the past greats have forgotten more than I’ll ever know but it sure is a hell of a good time learning.
Thanks for the quiz. Unbelievable that Mr. Batchell could lift what he did. How much did he weigh?? I’m most impressed by how much weight is lifted vs bodyweight. Kinda like high jumpers that jump way higher than they are tall. I think its a sign of superior mental strength. Inspirational indeed!!

[Tom Ryan]

Dick Bachtell competed in the 132-pound class after 1930. It was the 136-pound class in 1929 and 1930.

[Al Myers]

Tom, What year did they quit doing the one arm lifts at Nationals?? Al

[61pwcc]

I’ll guess that it was 1928.

[Tom Ryan]

[b]Quote from dinoman on April 23, 2011, 15:34[/b]
Tom, What year did they quit doing the one arm lifts at Nationals?? Al

Al,

Hoffman’s book shows 1935 as being the last year.

Tom

[61pwcc]

Which is interesting seeing by the 1928 Olympics, they had it down to 3 lifts. Contesting the other 2 for 7 more years is NOT something they’d do today.

[Tom Ryan]

[b]Quote from 61pwcc on April 23, 2011, 23:37[/b]
Which is interesting seeing by the 1928 Olympics, they had it down to 3 lifts. Contesting the other 2 for 7 more years is NOT something they’d do today.

They actually flip-flopped back and forth for a while with 5 in 1931, 3 in 1932 and 1933, then back to 5 for 1934 and 1935, then stabilizing at 3 in 1936 and thereafter. Rather odd.

[Al Myers]

Thanks Tom – I agree with 61, that is not something that would happen today. I wonder if the Americans at the time didn’t want the official Olympic lifts to be reduced to 3? Olympic lifting sure would be more interesting today if the 5 original lifts were still contested. Al

[61pwcc]

Now we’re down to two Olympic lifts. Sure is a shame that the press bit the dust in 72′. I believe that the press going from a strength/low gear lift to a quick lift gave lower geared athletes motivation to head towards Powerlifting. The 64′ rule change allowing thigh contact with the bar also downplayed the need for upper body strength.
Watching a Paul Anderson press is much more impressive than an Alexeev press. No disrespect to Vasily but can you imagine how much Anderson would’ve done in that style. HECK, his Jerks weren’t even Jerks, they were push presses.
Hoisting a big weight overhead with your hands is always outdone by doing it with ONE. I’m glad the USAWA gives folks a place to contest so many old-school productive lifts.
Maybe I’ll put on an old-school 5 lift Olympic meet here in Maine.

[Tom Ryan]

A few more thoughts about the 5-lift and 3-lift contests.

I looked back at some of my issues of S&H from 1934 and 1935 and I noticed that 3-lift and 5-lift contests were conducted in this country in the same year.

I saw a familiar name in the contest report of the 1935 Senior Nationals as Ed Zercher was a distant 5th (last) in the 165 class. He was another one of those 90% lifters as he did a one-arm snatch with 131 and a two-arm snatch with 143. That comes out to 91.6%. There were some other unusual results as John Terpak finished only 4th in the 148 class, but this was early in his career. John Terlazzo and Tony Terlazzo competed against each other (which probably didn’t happen very often) in that class, with John finishing behind Terpak.

I noticed an interesting comment from Hoffman at the start of his report when he stated “We are always in a hurry and made the 500 miles to Cincinnati going out in ten hours. More than eighty part of the way.” Bear in mind that roads were not in great shape in 1935. Going faster than 80 on them and with cars of that time would be a good way to get killed!

[61pwcc]

Tom, did you read ‘Muscletown, USA’ written by John D. Fair? What a good read!! Helped a youngster like myself(40 in November) get caught up on some history of York Barbell and Hoffman.
I’ve loaned it to folks who don’t workout and it’s been thoroughly enjoyed.

[Tom Ryan]

[b]Quote from 61pwcc on April 25, 2011, 08:40[/b]
Tom, did you read ‘Muscletown, USA’ written by John D. Fair? What a good read!! Helped a youngster like myself(40 in November) get caught up on some history of York Barbell and Hoffman.
I’ve loaned it to folks who don’t workout and it’s been thoroughly enjoyed.

Yes, I have a copy and read it shortly after it was published. I know John Fair but it has been 8 years since I have had any contact with him.

Tom

[Abe Smith]

Perhaps beating a dead horse….the USAWA consists of many lifts, most lifters do not do the USAWA solely but as a hobby. Doing the split method requires a lot of technical proficiency. Unless one spends a lot of time on the split method it will not likely pay off.

[Al Myers]

Hey Abe!!! Thanks for posting here. Are you planning on competing in Nationals this year?? Kirksville is not that far away from you. Al

[Abe Smith]

Man I wish I could….it would be a great trip to see the venue alone…not to mention get a beer at the historic tavern 🙂 But my wife works everyother weekend and so happens that all meets I’ve been wanting to do have been falling on the wrong weekends.

[Author]

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