Things I hate….

[Thom Van Vleck]

Things I hate….

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[Thom Van Vleck]

Al, I got a couple of trophies like that. I went to an ADFPA meet in Iowa. I entered the Open, the Bench, and Deadlift and came home with three of the most obnoxiously huge trophies you’ve ever seen. I was honestly embarrassed because only in the Deadlift had I actually beaten anyone!!!! I got rid of the other two and kept the Deadlift one as it was the only one that had any meaning.

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[Scott Tully]

I compete because I love to compete, I would prefer to have someone to lift against, but in the end Im there to lift more than the last time I competed. In the last few years I have done Strongman, PL, all around, HG and NAHA, I lift in NASA because they put comps on here, and my training partners compete there, as far as USAWA goes I do it because I enjoy some of the lifts, and my friends compete in it, honestly I only really enjoy record days, because last year in one of the comps I almost doubled someones total and somehow placed behind them due to a idiotic formula, to get the best master the age correction is fine, to get the best overall lifter of a meet the age correction is BS, so all feds and strength sports have there issues, in strongman the strongest or best that day wins, no coeffiiciants, but also there is no testing so its not a 100% level playing field either.

ST

[Thom Van Vleck]

Tully….I thought you compete in the USAWA to enjoy the friendly banter between the Dino Gym (AKA Evil Empire)and the perennial underdogs…the JEDI Knights of lifting….the JWC. I kinda picture you as Darth Vader and me…well…I’m Yoda. hahaha

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[John McKean]

Actually there need not be reason to worry about the various powerlift organizations, as the bench press, squat, and deadlift are legitimate events in the IAWA . It’s never been clear to me why these lifts aren’t standard in the USAWA as well ,but our membership fee automatically puts us into the IAWA, and records set on the powerlifts at a USAWA sanctioned meet will certainly be registered!(Over in England they just completed the IAWA Powerlift championships).For instance in Larry Traub’s upcoming meet, many of his alumni lifters don’t have to settle for “exhibition” status, when they can shoot for possible world records!

[61pwcc]

[b]Quote from memck487@aol.com on April 10, 2011, 07:24[/b]
Actually there need not be reason to worry about the various powerlift organizations, as the bench press, squat, and deadlift are legitimate events in the IAWA . It’s never been clear to me why these lifts aren’t standard in the USAWA as well ,but our membership fee automatically puts us into the IAWA, and records set on the powerlifts at a USAWA sanctioned meet will certainly be registered!(Over in England they just completed the IAWA Powerlift championships).For instance in Larry Traub’s upcoming meet, many of his alumni lifters don’t have to settle for “exhibition” status, when they can shoot for possible world records!

THAT is very interesting!! I compete in Powerlifting. I would FULLY support a USAWA Power meet. I’ll load my own attempts if need be(NOT a big sacrifice seeing I won’t need alot of weight on the bar)!! I’ve been in AAU & APF meets. Treated great by both. The spirit of the lifting I’m about is USAWA. I’ve ALWAYS competed RAW,even in geared meets. I don’t even use a belt. Yep, as Victor Hugo said, “An army of thousands can be resisted but not an idea whose time has come!!”

[Thom Van Vleck]

My understanding of the USAWA situation with the powerlifts and olympic lifts was that Bill Clark was of the opinion that there were already organizations that had those lifts covered. I would ask for Al to clarify here but it is also my understanding that all you need to do to approve new lifts for the USAWA would be to bring it to the Nationals when we also have our national meeting. There, a vote could be held and the lifts (or any lift demonstrated and rules submitted) could be approved. Another good reason to come to nationals!!!!!

Thom Van Vleck
Jackson Weightlifting Club
Highland Games athlete and sometimes All-Rounder

[Al Myers]

Thom, New proposed lifts must FIRST sent to the executive board for approval, and must be done more than 30 days prior to the meeting to allow time for this process to happen. Al

[Al Myers]

Another point:

One of the founding principles of the USAWA (and also the IAWA) was to officially recognize lifts not contested in other lifting organizations. This initially was a belief beyond that of Bills (and included some English lifters). The lifts in question were the basic powerlifts (squat, bench, and deadlift) and the two Olympic Lifts (the Clean and Jerk and the Snatch). Afterall, there are plenty of other organizations that offer these lifts in competition. The IAWA(UK) (and the IAWA) has now officially accepted these lifts as official lifts but the USAWA has not.

So the BIG QUESTION is do we change one of our founding principles? and in a way “rewrite” our constitution? I welcome feedback on this. Al

[jarrod]

so i have nothing to gain by voicing this opinion, because i am terrible at squats and my bench press is nothing to brag about either. but i think that the way USAWA does things–no gear, no drugs–is different enough to warrant contesting the powerlifts. i’ve never competed in powerlifting, though i’ve thought about it a lot. the reasons i haven’t (besides the aforementioned squat issue) is 1) i don’t use steriods 2) i don’t want to use wraps & shirts.

jf

[John McKean]

Since we are part of the IAWA, we can already contest the powerlifts, particularly for world record purposes. As Jarrod,wisely mentioned, we ARE differant in our performance & judging of the “old Time (AAU)” squat,bp, and deadlift without supportive gear,drugs, or suits (even the “natural” or “raw” organizations ,from reports I’ve heard frequently through the years, have many that are less than honest!).
Another HUGE factor is the ability to hold USAWA powerlift contests (if approved ;otherwise in this country, just as easy to conduct IAWA powerlift meets!) for teen /high school lifters to get involved with the overall USAWA format, without costing the youngsters a fortune in meet fees or being exposed to the undesirable elements of standard PL. A few years back, Jumpstretch conducted one of these IAWA bench press meets, Art & I judged, and the kids were thrilled to be shooting for records! Just think how we could increase our membership base with this inclusion!

[Al Myers]

Good point John –

My question is how many PL organizations already provide this:
1. Consistent drug testing
2. No supersuits or bench shirts allowed
3. Strict judging using certified officials

BTW, lets start adding physique contests as well if adding new members is our primary goal. Al

[Anonymous]

The only organization that I know, for sure, that has those 3 criteria IS the IAWA !! So, in effect, WE already have a solid basis to build on. And potential world records (listed on the IAWA website for everybody to view) on the powerlifts is certainly incentive for ALL of us that enjoy the all-rounds ( U.S.national record lists are not often seen by many ,anyway). As to new members, I think that is ALWAYS a worthy goal! But, to be on the safe side , Art & I will commence practicing our posing routines (now THAT would scare all new and OLD members away in a hurry!).

[jarrod]

al, i think figure contests are a great idea. true to USAWA form, they should be just a little different from how everyone else does them. i am sure to win the 90kg potbelly competition.

jf

[61pwcc]

For the same reasons that there is a USAWA/IAWA Strongman format already, adding Powerlifting would make sense.
I’ve always considered myself a Physical Culturist. The USAWA seems to do so as well. ANY type of training with a focus on common sense, good sportsmanship and a ton of hard work does a body good and makes you a better person. Getting more folks involved with this lifestyle via a USAWA styled Powerlifting meet seems like a good idea to me.

[Joe Garcia]

I on the other hand think the USAWA is a unique organization. You have all the other letter orgs, with raw, geared, tested, non-tested, etc already. The English added powerlifting because the main drivers over there are big into that venue, not that it is something that everyone wanted. Also, since the IAWA seems to allow for the records, you can already have a meet with those lifts in there. I don’t want to see us become just another powerlifting org.

[Al Myers]

Good discussion – please keep it a coming!

Another couple of points of thought:

Doesn’t the ALL in All-Round supposed to mean ALL lifts?

Or does All-Round really just mean the Odd Lifts (which it was called before the USAWA/IAWA days) which excludes the Normal Lifts (the PLs and the Olympic lifts)?

Is it a good thing to change our original beliefs and principles that our organization was formed on? If we do we will no longer be the unique lifting organization that we are now.

And if we are really interested in introducing competitive lifting to youths (by allowing the PLs as official USAWA lifts) – don’t you think the clean ought to be included as a lift as well? Afterall, it is always included in HS lifting competitions now.

Also – when you say “official IAWA lifts” what IAWA rulebook are you referring to? The last time I checked there wasn’t one – we have our USAWA Rulebook and the English have their IAWA(UK) Rulebook. Hmm… that’s a stumper!!

[John McKean]

Heck, as long as the three powerlifts have positions in the IAWA world record list, we already have reason & verification to do them(those,at least, young enough to still have knees & shoulders!!)without changing their status at all in the U.S.!In Larry’s upcoming meet they are completely legit internationally.

Now originally the “odd lifts”, well before the many subsequent PL organizations, did include the bench ,squat, and deadlift (as well as sometimes press behind neck, curls, and chins-for-reps), at least as recorded in Odd Lift results in early MD magazines, and as we contested them in the early 60s here in Western PA. I don’t recall the Clean as an odd lift, but it certainly would be a good lift for our competitions ( I always wanted a one arm clean to be included!). OK, off to pump the biceps for the upcoming all-round pose off!!

[61pwcc]

[b]Quote from joegarcia on April 11, 2011, 13:03[/b]
I on the other hand think the USAWA is a unique organization. You have all the other letter orgs, with raw, geared, tested, non-tested, etc already. The English added powerlifting because the main drivers over there are big into that venue, not that it is something that everyone wanted. Also, since the IAWA seems to allow for the records, you can already have a meet with those lifts in there. I don’t want to see us become just another powerlifting org.

No matter WHICH way we go with this, the USAWA will ALWAYS be a unique orginazation. Even if we do include Powerlifting, there is NO way we’d become just another Powerlifting orginazation.
As someone with Powerlifting, Olympic Weightlifting, Strongman memberships(soon to be USAWA as well), I’d like a chance to compete under one roof so to speak.
When Bill Clark set the USAWA up originally, Powerlifting was NOT in the out of control situation it finds itself now. Being in the USAWA would give Powerlifting some dignity again. Who’s more qualified than the USAWA to give Powerlifting some credibility again??

[John McKean]

I just got a note in from Steve Gardner- he well remembers the proposal to accept powerlifts into the IAWA . It came at a World Council meeting in the USA at one of our world meets during the early to mid 90s. And the proposal to accept not only came from US lifters, but the vote was unanimous in favor ( tho one prominent official then stormed out of the meeting!).So, again, I have to question why the powerlifts weren’t installed into the USAWA format?

[Al Myers]

John – IAWA accepted the Squat and Deadlift (for some reason the Bench Press wasn’t listed in the minutes) at the 1997 IAWA Championships in Collegeville, PA. To my knowledge, the USAWA has never discussed or voted on this matter at an USAWA National meeting. Al

[murdo01]

Issue 1 – Powerlifting. Didn’t we just have a powerlifting contest in March (Eastern Postal)? There were 3 lifts, a bench, a squat, and a deadlift, and aren’t those the three lifts contested in a PL meet? The USAWA has several variations of each of these lifts, and if you don’t have the basic strength/technique in the basis for these lifts you are’nt going to be proficient in the variants. The beauty of the USAWA is in the variations, are you willing or able to make the little adaptions required. It seems that the greatest concern in this issue is ovet the name of the contest, whether to call it a powerlifting meet, or an USAWA name!

Issue two – champions, plagues, torphies etc. that’s where this discussion started. National Champions, four – Women’s, Men’s Open, Men’s Masters and Overall, based on Lynch points, no age adjustment. The Lynch points (as good or as bad as one might think it is) takes care of the weight class differences. Trophies or medals just for “showing up” are meaningless unless you need to have a shelf full to prove your self to others. Don’t get me wrong, I like the multiple weight and age classes of the USAWA, but there can be only one best on a particular day. Personally, I have four records I look at, my personal best, best in my age/weight class, best in my age class, and best of weight class overall. All of these are compared by lynch points. How much do I need to lift to have a better lynch on a particular lift to set a record, that’s the target to aim for. That’s the beauty of record days, you can have as little as one target, best of age/weight, or up to three, all the previous listed targets. Regular meets give you an opportunity to set personal bests if you aren’t at a level to meet the standards set by others, but the quest is to meet those standards.

Best lifter awards are a little like medals for showing up. If you are the only person in your class, they don’t have a lot of real significance, unless you happened to break several records that you can put on the certificate. The real rewards are not trophies and the like, but the experience, happening, atmosphere, or however you want to describe it. The intangibles are the real reward.

Murdo

[Scott Tully]

Mike, your post is one of the many reasons your one of my favorite lifters!!

ST

[Al Myers]

Mike – Those are words spoken like a TRUE All-Rounder!!! I gotta agree with everything you said. I especially like your first comments regarding the powerlifts. An All-Round lifter should look at a couple of lifts like the deadlift and Jefferson Lift as just a couple of different pulling movements, each working similiar muscles, but one not more special than the other. Al

[murdo01]

Al, iagree wholeheartedly with you on the deadlifts. My dl workouts, when I do one, are usually a set of five Reeves (
grip bonus), Jefferson, and Hack. Then add weight and sets of 2. What have I accomplished, a wide grip set, a normal over-under grip (jefferson0 and a double overhand narrow grip (hack), and the three effect the legs and hips differently. Trap bar dl’s happen on occasion, usually partials from milk crates. These are usually followed by seated or bent over rows. Bench presses, all grips are usually done with feet in the air because on most benches my feet don’t reach the floor. I’ve always benched this way. It’s almost like a strict curl, if you can slip a hand under your back you have excessive back bend.

What I think sometimes gets missed is the fact that the USAWA variants force lower limits on the lifts, reducing the potential risks to joints and tendons. Admittedly, there are tremendous poundages lifted, but probably not as much as without ‘form’ restrictions.

Murdo

[John McKean]

A very sensible workout Murdo! I agree with your points on variants of form & how strength builds better with variety of the all-rounds!! Hmmm, someone else used to train this way -ole Herman Goerner (SP?), who has some(unofficial) records that are about 90 yrs old ! Your training & mine look a lot alike!

[Al Myers]

Mike – I agree again!!!

Sometimes when I’m training my pull, I will work up to max weight in different types of exercises and just “continue on” with the next exercise after I have reached a max in the one before, and never lower the bar weight. Example: start with deadlift – Ciavattone Grip Fulton Bar, and work up to your max. Then change to an alternate grip with the Fulton Bar and continue on, and after reaching your max with this lift, switch to a regular bar and just keep “adding more weight”. In a sense, the early exercises are warm-ups for the latter exercises. Your time committment is about the same as if you were working up on a regular bar but you get the variation and excitement of training other All-Round lifts!!!

This type of training is fun!! And I believe if you have fun in the gym you will WANT to keep going back. Today is a rest day for me (yesterday was my heavy back/leg day) and one of the most depressing days of my week. But maybe I should take John’s advice and just go fishing!!! Al

[61pwcc]

Al, I like working up weakest version to strongest version of a lift as well. Nothing like Overhead Squat followed by Front Squat followed by SSB Squat followed by Olympic Squat. Some times the opposite is interesting as well: Strongest to weakest.

[Author]

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