[Al Myers]

Yes, we will use the IAWA(UK) rules instead of the USAWA rules as has been done in the past at the World Meet.

The similar USAWA lift is the continental to chest and jerk. The jerk must be a legal jerk.

The IAWA(UK) lift is called the continental clean and jerk – meaning BOTH the clean and the jerk can be done with continental rules – meaning anything goes. And YES – you can pressout, strongman press it, etc..

It makes no sense to me to call a lift a continental clean – and even less sense calling something a continental jerk. But this lift was performed at the 2011 Worlds in Australia and that is the way it was performed and officiated.

Al

[Al Myers]

Scott is working on getting the Kansas Strongest Man scheduled for the Dino Gym that day. It won’t start till 1:00 (after the Heavy Lift Champs), so a lifter could do both if they want! At least it will give the opportunity to compete in one and watch the other. It will make for an interesting and fun day for all!!!

[Al Myers]

Well if the professor says it is so…..then it must be so.

[Al Myers]

I’m looking to all of us debating this issue “face to face” over a few beers Saturday night. LOL

And Dan – science is a religion. They call it scientology. Maybe that is what Thom was talking about?????

Another thing Dan – I think Thom is scared of you so I doubt if he makes it to the gym this weekend. If he shows – then we will know that is not the case, but I’m betting that he doesn’t show even though he’s told all of us he is gonna to make it here on the forum.

[Al Myers]

ET,

This ought to be a great day at the Dino Gym. The weather is bound to be nicer than this weekend, and it looks like we might be hosting the Kansas Strongest Man in the afternoon at the gym as well. So it will be a double header!!!

Plus Scott and I are making plans to host a big backyard BBQ afterwards so you might have to spend the night for once!!! Al

[Al Myers]

The meet is going to happen whether it snows more or not!

Just please travel safely and don’t push it if the weather is bad from your destination. Al

[Al Myers]

so far – so good.

The meets still on!

However – please don’t risk travel if you think the roads are bad from where you are traveling from!

[Al Myers]

A few years ago I did an informal study of my own to evaluate the fairness of the 1% age allowance for 40 and above. This study has NO STATISTICAL SIGNIFICANCE so please don’t attack it for that issue. It merely reflects the actual lifting performances that have been done by many lifters and many lifts over the 25 year history of the USAWA in four of the most common performed lifts.

Dan – I KNEW eventually you would question the relevance of my informal study!!!!

Good discussion guys – one of the best we have had on this forum.

Just FYI – I recalculated the results of the postal championships taking away any age adjustment and Dan still beat me – so I can’t blame it on the age adjustment!!! haha

Actually the was very little changes in the overall rankings – Chad and ET moved up one place, but the rest lined up just the same as before. So I guess this “age adjustment thing” really doesn’t make that much difference in reality.

Another point – the USAWA does have an age group category that does NOT give age adjustment points over the age of 40 and it’s called the OPEN CLASS. Outlined very clearly in the rulebook (II.3). Maybe Dan you should just enter this and not take your age points and let the rest of us have our age points to give us at least a fighting chance against you??!!!

[Al Myers]

Timo, I would think there would be lots of carry over to the MFDL. But that’s just a guess as there’s no way I could do a middle finger chin to know for sure!!!!

Keep up the good work! Al

[Al Myers]

Dan,

Considering over 80% of the USAWA membership is over the age of 40 (and like the age correction), I’m betting you will be out of luck on swaying many votes your way on this!

I’m not doubting your science on the effects of age vs strength gains. I’ve seen many lifters over the age of 60 make significant strength gains. I’ll use my dad as an example – since he has started training just a few years ago he is stronger now than he might ever have been.

But to say that all lifters over 80 can make 300% gains – I don’t believe it. Sure – some 85 year old who can only pick up 30 pounds might, with proper scientific training, increase to 90 pounds. But to say Art Montini can increase his deadlift 300% from 250 to 750 is impossible. I would bet any amount of money on that – and he can use all the available science there is to try to make it possible!!!!

My study of the age allowance vs. age was on the AVERAGES of all lifters who had records. In several cases a master lifter held the overall record, but in no cases did any masters age groups AVERAGE the overall record averages. There is always individual variations in any study.

I believe the 1% is not enough to truly represent the strength losses in the masters classes (as shown by my study). It only “helps” in leveling the playing field – much the same way as the bodyweight correction. A lot of what you say can also apply to bodyweights – as I’ve seen lighter lifters outlift in total pounds heavier lifters ALL THE TIME. But if you look at averages of all lifters this is not the case as well. The real “purists” like my brother in law Bob Burtzloff wished there were not even weight classes OR age classes. The strongest man with the top total wins!!

Since this topic has began, I’ve been trying to determine the reasons the 1% age adjustment over the age of 40 was implemented. I can find none – and it has been in place since the very beginning. So probably an arbitrary number voted on by the membership and accepted. If someone knows the true reason 1% was decided on please let me know.

I do like the way the USAWA allows all lifters to be in “competition” with each other in a meet. I’ve also competed in PL meets where everyone ended up a first place winner across many divisions – sure it feels good and good from a business standpoint as a meet promoter trying to get more numbers – but it gives a false sense of accomplishment when you go home being the champion of one!

I know no formula is “perfect” to fully equate lifters between ages and bodyweights – and there never will be one. But I do think the way we do it is as good as he can be. (now don’t get me started on the Blindt Formula….haha). Also – at Nationals and Worlds best lifters are recognized in each 5 year age group over the age of 40, as well as the best Junior and Senior lifters (20-39).

Al

[Al Myers]

Within the next week.

The date of the USAWA Nationals is June 21st.

I’m still trying to find the day that will work the best for the most lifters for the Heavy Champs. It will be at the Dino Gym either the first or second Sat of May – depending on which date I get the most yes’s for. So give me you pick!!!!

Al

[Al Myers]

I appreciate Dans and Toms responses to this thought provoking issue. Both of their posts clearly stated their viewpoints with intellectual thought.

A few years ago I did an informal study of my own to evaluate the fairness of the 1% age allowance for 40 and above. This study has NO STATISTICAL SIGNIFICANCE so please don’t attack it for that issue. It merely reflects the actual lifting performances that have been done by many lifters and many lifts over the 25 year history of the USAWA in four of the most common performed lifts. And that it enough to satisfy my viewpoints on this issue that the 1% age allowance is probably inadequate to fully compensate for strength loss, and only helps in leveling the playing field in meets across the averages of all athletes. Until some better “proof” is shown to me on this as age applies to the USAWA lifts or updated better studies show something different with a larger data set, I will continue to believe our age correction has validity. Al

Is The IAWA Age Adjustment Fair??

Calendar September 25, 2009 | Authored by Al Myers | Edit

by Al Myers

A topic that will be discussed at this year’s World Meeting at the World Championship will be the age adjustment. This was brought up last year and an IAWA committee was formed to investigate it and present a recommendation to the meeting this year. The membership will be called on to vote on this, whether to make a change or keep things as they are.

This subject is very interesting to me as I hear arguments from both sides. Young lifters think the older lifters get too much adjustment, while the older lifters don’t feel like they get enough. Formulas are always hard to develop and make completely fair as there are so many variables to consider.

I did a study of my own on three lifts. I want to emphasize THIS IS NOT THE IAWA STUDY. It is merely a study which I did to satisfy my own curiosity on this subject. I think it is important that I have this information in hand in order to make an informative vote. I just collected some numbers and did a few calculations. I am not doing this to try to “sway votes” one way or the other. I just wanted to see what “the numbers” really show in regard to decreased lifting performance with age.

Study of the Age Adjustment

Objective: To collect information from age group USAWA records, make USAWA and IAWA(UK) age corrections for comparison, and determine what correction for age group records are needed in order for the age group records to be the same as the overall records.

Design: I collected information from age group USAWA records in three lifts – Bench Press Feet in Air, Hack Lift, and the Zercher Lift. I picked these three lifts for these reasons: they evaluate all areas of overall strength -pressing, pulling and squatting, and the data base for these records was full in regard to records in all weight classes and age divisions. I calculated an average of all weight class records within an age group so bodyweight adjustments would not be a factor in this study. I utilized this formula to determine what correction is needed in order to adjust to the average of the Overall Record.

Correction Needed = (Overall Record – Age group Record) / Age Group Record

Assumptions: I used the USAWA and IAWA(UK) age correction for the top age of each division despite the record may have been set a younger age within the division. The record list does not provide that data.

Results:
All Records listed in pounds.

Bench Press Feet in Air

Age Group
Overall Record
USAWA Correction
IAWA(UK) Correction
Correction Needed

Overall 353 353 353 0%
40-44 280 294 305 26.1%
45-49 268 295 306 31.7%
50-54 246 283 293 43.5%
55-59 228 274 274 54.8%
60-64 209 261 270 68.9%
65-69 194 252 268 82.0%
70-74 167 225 247 111.4%
75-79 141 197 223 150.4%
80-84 116 168 195 204.3%

Hack Lift

Age Group
Overall Record
USAWA Correction
IAWA(UK) Correction
Correction Needed

Overall 538 538 538 0%
40-44 465 488 507 15.7%
45-49 401 441 457 34.2%
50-54 382 439 455 40.8%
55-59 330 396 409 63.0%
60-64 320 400 413 68.1%
65-69 321 417 443 67.6%
70-74 304 410 450 77.0%
75-79 242 339 382 122.3%
80-84 168 244 282 220.2%

Zercher Lift

Age Group
Overall Record
USAWA Correction
IAWA(UK) Correction
Correction Needed

Overall 452 452 452 0%
40-44 372 391 405 21.5%
45-49 352 387 401 28.4%
50-54 339 390 403 33.3%
55-59 331 397 410 36.6%
60-64 296 370 382 52.7%
65-69 280 364 386 61.4%
70-74 246 332 364 83.7%
75-79 204 286 322 121.6%
80-84 180 261 302 151.1%

Summary:

Age Group
USAWA Correction
IAWA(UK) Correction
Data Range
Data Average

Overall 0% 0% 0% 0%
40-44 5% 9% 15.7% – 26.1% 21.1%
45-49 10% 14% 28.4% – 34.2%
31.4%
50-54 15% 19% 33.3% – 43.5%
39.2%
55-59 20% 24% 36.6% – 63.0%
51.5%
60-64 25% 29% 52.7% – 68.9%
63.2%
65-69 30% 38% 61.4% – 82.0%
70.3%
70-74
35% 48% 77.0% – 111.4%
90.7%
75-79 40% 58% 121.6% – 150.4%
131.4%
80-84 45% 68% 151.1% – 220.2%
191.8%

As you can clearly see, the USAWA and the IAWA(UK) age corrections do not keep up with the performance decrease with increased age for these three lifts that where selected from the USAWA Record List. No calculations were done to determine the statistical significance of this study.

[Al Myers]

Ok – I’ll “bite” here. I’ve been watching this topic to see if anyone has strong feelings one way or the other – but it doesn’t appear that way.

Plus I’ve been having a team of detectives investigate Dan and his unapparent ability to age chronologically. No proof of his actual birthdate was obtained – and since he has listed his age as 50 for several years now in entry forms I have to wonder if he even knows???

And Dan – the answer to why the USAWA gives a mandatory age adjustment is pretty simple – because we have always done it that way. Its one of those traditional unique things that the USAWA does. Until you – no one who was a master lifter really ever complained about this “handicap”. Actually it’s been the opposite – some older lifters think the age adjustment should be even higher!!!

[Al Myers]

Tom,

Only “worthy” records get mentioned when they get broke. Most never get mentioned. haha So that’s a great compliment to you!

I do think tendon and ligament strength plays a big part of the heavy lifts. Along with pain threshold. Squat/deadlift strength and heavy lifting strength doesn’t always correlate.

However, with proper training and the ability to learn how to apply a lifters natural leverages anyone can improve tremendously with the heavy lifts in short order.

Al

[Al Myers]

Dan,

wow that’s deep. The hallucinogenic Colorado air must be soaking into your brain.

I was just simply encouraging you to use an alternate grip instead of a double overhand grip – you can lift more weight in the finger deadlifts that way as you are blocking the rotation of the bar. Then you will technically be giving me the SINGLE middle finger salute instead of the double. Al HAHA

[Author]

Posts