[Al Myers]

Geez bigt that sounded like a politicalian I didn’t understand a word of it. And KC I know u r just kidding because u previously said the line should b drawn at knee wraps hhaha. Excuse my typing as I’m sitting at the airport and this keypad on the iPad is really way to tiny for my fat fingers However this issue will b decided by the meeting of the minds at Denny’s this weekend Lol

[Al Myers]

casinoman – good point, I agree if knee wraps are allowed for a lift then knee sleeves should be allowed as well as they are indeed less supportive. However, that is not how the rule is written so knee sleeves are not allowed in the 12″ base squat and front squat, just knee wraps.

I gotta wonder though – how many of those in favor of knee sleeves are also in favor of elbow sleeves? I know the professor is in favor of this, but are others? Dinoman

[Al Myers]

Since Big T brought up Bill Clark and the ole Strength Journal, I think it is “only right” that Bill gets a say in this discussion since he is not on the forum. So I’m going to share a little “tidbit” he had to say about wraps from many years back. I doubt his opinion has changed since!!! His viewpoint should be respected since he is THE ONE who started both the USAWA and the IAWA, and considered our founding father. Here it is (from Bill Clark):

WRAPS – The IAWA started out as a pure group… pure in drug practice, pure in mechanical aids(no supportive gear). Hopefully, we’re still drug-free, though I’d bet against it. Obviously, we’re no longer willing to match muscle against weight. Belts have always been allowed (though this person has always voted against them and will always refuse to wear one in any kind of lift). Then came a plea to allow protective wrist wraps where back hang is a factor (the swings). OK! Now all lifts can use wrist wraps. Why? What’s next – knee wraps? Bed sheets around the waist like the old days of powerlifting? Wraps are pure bullshit! Belts are bullshit too….but wraps are PURE BULLSHIT!!!! Don’t tell me about safety. Don’t tell me about the need for belts – other than in your mind. The arguments don’t fly. Wraps support your ego. We started out more interested in your strength than your damned ego.

[Al Myers]

The answer to the first part of your question (shorts longer than the base of the quadriceps) is easier than the second. The reason is because long shorts may interfere with judging decisions, ie Are the legs straight? Is the squat depth adequate? etc.

The tank top violation is confusing to me as well. It is an old rule, and I would guess it was put into the rules as part of the dress code policy, ie the same reason the professor can’t wear his beanie in competition as it might appear to the viewing public that he is just another dumb meathead, thus not the image the USAWA wants to promote (LOL). But I’ve always argued that you can go without a shirt if you wear a singlet??? That doesn’t make sense if tank tops aren’t allowed. But the good news is shirts with cut-off sleeves is NO PROBLEM!!!

And bbenzel – get a nickname for this forum or I’ll give you one and you might not like it!! haha Dinoman

[Al Myers]

Just had a “swing vote” come in:

For 14
Against 17

That’s still only 31 votes out of close to a hundred membership. Lots of time yet for things to change!!

[Al Myers]

Let’s keep this a rolling…

casinoman, I did not ever say neoprene shorts provides the same type of “supportive aid” as a squat suit (I checked back in my previous posts to make sure). But that’s assuming a good squat suit is worn – I often wear one in training that is so old and worn out (over 10 years) and way too big (got it when I weighed 300#), that I don’t feel it aids my lifts at all. But here comes the rub in which there is disagreement as KC pointed out:

The rules say: “the lifting uniform may be a one piece suit or it may consist of shorts and a shirt. The lifting uniform must not provide any support that would aid in lifting”.

This rule definitely implies “lifting uniform” as a one piece suit OR shorts and shirt. Now while some would argue that neoprene shorts are nonsupportive – there are others who would say they ARE supportive in aiding a lift. That’s a debateable point if you ask me (but my opinion is the same as yours, that they aren’t supportive). The thoughts of the “previous administration” felt they were supportive and not allowable. But as the wise professor pointed out – they have at times been allowed in the past, even at big National Meets. (Mostly because they were hidden under shorts and the boss didn’t know).

Now back to the knee wrap issue and a little history lesson. Back at the IAWA Worlds in 1997 in PA, the membership voted to allow knee wraps for the squat (12″ base and front squat). It caused great “uprising” in which some members walked out of the meeting. Since that time all of the IAWA membership have been using them for those two lifts. In the time between then and the 2010 meeting, some USAWA members had thought they were allowed, while others didn’t. The passing of allowing knee wraps for these two lifts at the 2010 meeting was done mainly because they had been used for over 10 years by some members and records were already established with them. Most of the USAWA members in attendance at that meeting were against knee wraps, but understood that the “train had already left the depot” on the issue, and unless you were going to wipe the records list clean and start over, you had to “go along” with a issue that had already been voted on and passed years ago. Dinoman

[Al Myers]

Vote at this point with the Sept 1st deadline approaching fast:

FOR 15
AGAINST 16

I’ll answer those post questions when I get more time later. But I got to ask – does anyone REALLY KNOW how I will vote on this issue?? Dinoman

[Al Myers]

Ok guys – what about compression shorts??

Is that the next item to be considered “on our way” to a full geared organization?? Or is that where “the line” is drawn?? Dinoman

[Al Myers]

I’m glad to see this healthy discussion on knee sleeves!

NOWHERE in the current rules does it say if you have a doctor’s note you will be allowed to wear them. This is not highschool gym class!! The rules, as written, say “an exception may be made by the officials if the lifter has proof that it is is medically necessary”. The decision of “the proof” is left to the meet director, and it’s the meet directors call only. That’s the way it always has been, and there has been NUMEROUS times throughout the history of the USAWA where knee sleeves have been allowed by meet directors in competition for lifters they felt really needed them. I got many old meet videos and pictures to prove this – but I won’t go that far (and even pictures of a few lifters in MY MEETS, besides Wilbur, where I have allowed it on occassion, hic hic, You know who you are). And according to the USAWA rules -that has not been a violation.

Now Professor – I’m glad to see that you have such high ethical standards that you think everyone should shun wrist wraps if they are against knee sleeves. That’s a righteousness point of view. But what you say doesn’t make any sense to me on this point. I may think wrist wraps shouldn’t be allowed in the USAWA, but if they are legal and I wear them, does that mean I’m in favor of them? Or is it that I’m just “playing by the rules” and getting the advantage out of them like the rest of the competition is? But then that must seem to you that I’m being hypocritical. Hmmmm…..

[Al Myers]

Great points Z!!

There are so many great things about the USAWA. We are fortunate to be a small organization, so most everyone knows everyone and great friendships can be made. It reminds me very much of the early days (over 20 years ago) in the Highland Games. The same dozen throwers showed up at every regional games and we had fun. Back then the number of games were very scarce, so when there was a games everyone attended. I remember throwing before there were even organized rules – you played by the rules of the AD for the day, and NOBODY cared about it! That’s just the way it was. Then along came “governing bodies”, record lists, ranking lists, etc and it never was the same.

But Z man – you have me confused on the vote you cast? You negated big brothers vote by yours – but your feelings seem to reflect the opposite??? Are you in a state of mental confusion??? Dinoman

[Al Myers]

Chad told me that he is more interested in the lifting shorts the lifter in the picture is wearing.

[Al Myers]

Totally agree! I also know that all of us (meaning those that are posting on this topic) were to gather in a bar with a few pitchers of beer, we would be in an unanimous agreement to a solution in under 5 minutes!!

But I like to continue to “stir the pot”, so now guess how many pictures of lifters wearing knee sleeves in official competitions that are illustrated in the Rulebook? And I will point out that all these pictures were taken “before our time”. Add in the numerous pictures of lifters wearing sweatpants (which could be covering up anything), and it’s not too hard to realize that this issue (knee sleeves) has been going on for some time in the USAWA “under the radar”.

These rulebook pictures sorta sends “mixed signals” if you ask me. Al

[Al Myers]

I want to make another point.

The argument of saying the USAWA already allows kneewraps (for front sq, 12″ base sq and Anderson Sq), wrist wraps, and belts have set the precident that supportive gear is allowed now as a means of justifying MORE supportive gear does not “fly” in my book. In this argument, one thing will just lead to another, meaning it creates a prior precident “reasoning” that will justify support for the next. What’s next? Elbow sleeves? Supportive neoprene shorts? Afterall, those can easily be justified as well. Afterall, who doesn’t have elbow and hip issues???

I remember the meeting when the ruling was made on knee wraps for the front squat and 12″ base squat. It was a “hotly” debated issue at the meeting, but finally agreement was made when it was decided “THIS WILL BE IT! NO MORE EQUIPMENT.”

Apparently not – because now that vote has set precident for the next issue, ie knee sleeves. Al

[Al Myers]

Comparing me to Conrad Dobler??? haha and yes I’m old enough to know who he is!

This rule states:

VI. Equipment

8. Braces or supports on any part of the body are not allowed. This would include neoprene elbow and knee sleeves. An exception to this rule may be made by the officials if the lifter has proof that it is medically necessary.

That is a pretty vague rule which has always given us some lee-way on this issue. I made that decision on Wilbur after looking at his 12″ scar on his knee (and WHO is going to tell an all-time great like him that he can’t wear them???)

And I might add, his knee sleeves are NOTHING like what any of you wear. They looked completely worn out and probably are older than any lifter under 40!!! Al

[Al Myers]

ET, You and Chad should be doing the 2-Man Neck Lift together – instead of me! I’ll just stand to the side and coach the both of you. Truthfully, that is what you need in order to keep perfect synchronization – a coach that is giving the commands to get set and lift. I was trying to give the commands during the lift we did, but with the head harness smashing my neck and vocal cords, I sounded like a duck. Al

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